The Three Phases of the Customer Buying Journey & Simple Steps to Moving Your Audience Down It

[00:00:00] INTRO: After generating over a million dollars in sales and selling one of her businesses with a single email, your host, Katherine Thompson takes an unconventional approach to marketing and sales. So if you're ready to tap into a more powerful way to be seen her and a sought after entrepreneur in your industry without having to spend endless hours marketing your business and chasing clients, you're in the right place.

Be the sought after entrepreneur podcast is here to help you ditch the cookie cutter one size fits all approach to marketing and use your unique energy to effortlessly attract the most aligned clients. When you do this. You can spend less time marketing your business and more time doing your soul work and enjoying the richness of your life.

Welcome to be the sought after entrepreneur podcast. And here's your host, Katherine Thompson.

Kathryn Thompson: Hey, hey, super stoked that you're tuning into this week's episode. I cannot wait to dive into [00:01:00] today's topic because. I am building off of last week's episode. I left you on a bit of a cliffhanger. I shared with you how to step off the feast or famine rollercoaster and helped identify one of the biggest reasons why we get on that rollercoaster or we get in this season of our business where we're just throwing spaghetti against the wall, hoping something sticks and we're focusing so much on building an audience, growing a following, building that email list, and yet we're still not a hundred percent clear.

on what offer we're putting out there or even who we're really wanting to support. So I left you with a bit of a cliffhanger because it was kind of like, this is really great insight. I totally hear what you're saying. I've done this. I've had people commenting, sending me emails being like, Oh my gosh, you're totally speaking to me with this episode.

This is exactly what I've done. And now I'm in the midst of really trying to cultivate a following of people that are ultimately going to love the offers that I put out there. And I left you with the [00:02:00] cliffhanger because it was kind of like, well, now what? So what do I actually do? So I want to build off of that because I think there are three very distinct phases in the customer mind journey and very distinct phases of where we need to focus our energy.

But I think oftentimes we spend a lot of our time focusing on the sale, right? Which is natural. If you're a business owner, that's what you're kind of focusing on, right? It's like the sales that are coming into your business. Because without those sales, that sort of starts to bring in the risk of like, can I keep doing this, right?

If I don't have the sales coming in, Am I going to be able to continue to do what I do? And for the heart centered, heart led entrepreneurs who love what they do, this is a tough reality to be in where you're starting to contemplate, well, maybe, maybe the offers I have aren't good enough. Maybe what I'm doing isn't good enough.

Maybe I'm just not meant to be doing this. Maybe this isn't my path. And this is a contemplation that. It's heartbreaking [00:03:00] for so many people that come into my world. I had a woman once fill out the application for Spellbound and I asked, why now? Why this work? Why is this so important to you? Because I really, really, really want to work with purpose driven entrepreneurs, people that are, uh, Here for an impact more so than the money and I'm not saying that the money isn't important because it is but that their purpose driven first and foremost and What and her comment was or her response was that if I don't do this I'm like it literally is breaking my heart.

I can't imagine dying not being able to do this work I can't imagine getting to my deathbed and And having not lived out my purpose, and that is why I do what I do, because I want to help people live out their purpose in this way, the vision that's been placed on their heart. But I also equally see where a lot of times we're blocking things within our business or we've got these blockages in our business.

And And [00:04:00] yet we're scrambling to figure out what works, when things work, how they work, that sort of thing. And we end up throwing spaghetti against a wall, really just trying to make things work. And yet there's no real rhyme or reason to it. And so I wanted to share on this episode. The three phases that I see in the customer buying journey that will give you an indication of where to kind of focus on the customer journey, but what you can be doing, because I think that's a big question, right?

He's like, cool. I get the blocks. I get where I need to focus. But then what do I actually do practically? Because in last week's episode, I really, really honed in on the fact that a lot of times we struggle in our business because we build these audiences. We focus on building the list, these numbers, the number of people on our email list, the number of followers.

Again, I can't count how many times I have people coming to me being like, I don't have a big list. I don't have a big following. I just need to grow it. And I know [00:05:00] if I just grow my following and grow my list. I'm going to be successful and that isn't 100% not true, but oftentimes there's this lack of clarity on who it is ultimately they want to support, but also lack of clarity on the offer they're putting out there.

And I gave this comparison between my brick and mortar, my online business, and I think in online business world, we get away with that because I don't want to say there's less at stake, but there kind of is from an overhead perspective, I would never be able to just Test out things in my brick and mortar because I would have sunk the business because there was so much cost in renting space, in inventory, in equipment, all of it, right?

So I couldn't just open a business on wine and then hope to God in a couple of months I figured out and got clarity on what the offer would be. I had to have the offer. I had to have the product I wanted to use and I had to have the type of customer I was wanting to serve before I ever even opened the [00:06:00] doors.

And that's the mistake I see which keeps people riding this feast or famine, or keeps them throwing that spaghetti against the wall of like, nobody buys what I have, and it's because we're putting the wrong offer in front of the wrong people at the very wrong time. And so I want to also bring that further down now that you've got an offer, you're clear on that.

You're clear on who your people are and still you're seeing resistance or not the sales that you want to and you're not even really sure what works. So you're trying all of the things. Again, another big thing that I hear often, um, When I'm working with people or consulting in business is, you know, should I be on LinkedIn?

Should I be on Instagram? Like I really like tech talk. Should I be there? Where should I be? And it's this, these what ifs, there's all of these what ifs that create like this tornado in your brain. Like how many emails should I send? How many emails do I need to send? When do I need to send them? When's the.

Best [00:07:00] time to offer a free training. When's the best time to put out a new offer? When is the best time to create a lead magnet? There's all of these what ifs, right? There's all of these questions that create this tornado in our mind and it's all mental, right? If you think about it, all of these questions are mental.

There's nothing instinctual about them. There's nothing intuitive about them. It's all mental. Like there's this formula that. You know, these really successful entrepreneurs have in this like little black book and they're not sharing with people. And that we're going to walk around continually asking, like, how many followers do I need to have in order to, you know, sell 10 things?

How many people do I need to open my email list to sell out my offers, right? All of these analytical, psychological, logical questions that come up in that mental brain. And the reason they come up in the mental brain is. It's because we want to get things right, [00:08:00] right? That there's this right or wrong way of doing it.

If I send only two emails a week, then maybe that's not enough, right? Or if I don't send two emails a week, then that's not enough. That's another big thing I see heavily is, is I'm not doing enough, right? Maybe I'm not doing enough to garner the sales. And I want to just. break down these three phases for you because it's going to show you how freaking simple marketing and sales actually is and how all of these logical what if thinking contemplation is really just mental drama and that there is no right or wrong and I can say this over and over and yet we still have this mental chatter that goes on of I need to do it this way.

Or I need to have this style of launch, right? I need to do a live launch. Maybe the challenge launch just doesn't really work for me. Or maybe I need to just do a webinar. Or maybe I need to turn it evergreen. Or if I turn it [00:09:00] evergreen, then what would entice people to buy? Like there's no urgency. And what's so interesting about that is, is that, I'll just give you an example again with the wine business, is like, we sold wine all year long.

There was no urgency to come in and buy the wine. The urgency was, is that we had a really amazing product. The demand for the product was there. And when people ran out, they wanted to buy more wine. Right. So maybe that's the urgency. They saw two bottles on their wine rack versus the 30, you know, but what's interesting in the online world is, is that we've created this notion that we have to put in some type of urgency to get people to buy, or we have to create some type of deadline for people to buy.

And I'm not going to say that deadlines don't work, they absolutely do to some degree, but if you actually then go and compare it to the offline world, or you compare it to a product business, or something along those lines, like, we don't stop selling, or we don't create a, you know, [00:10:00] we're not selling this anymore deadline.

Get it now before we close the doors, like your businesses would sink again, right? So it's just interesting to see these patterns having transitioned into the online world that then get ingrained in us that this is the way we need to do things. But if you actually step back and zoom out and look at business from a big picture and take a look at what's made businesses successful.

You will notice that yes, there are strategies that people have applied, but if you talk to, you know, 15 or 20 entrepreneurs, they're likely going to tell you that they've tried a bunch of different things and that their way of doing things really is grounded in their intuition and instinct for business, for their offers, for their audience and what felt right to them.

in that moment. And yes, it might look somewhat like the strategies that are grounded in marketing and sales, but they totally made it their own. But you'll [00:11:00] also notice that it really does start with the offer, right? Is that they had a really fricking good offer that was unique and distinct and different.

And it was them like they, they brought the passion and the energy. I was watching a shark tank. Dragon's Den months ago, and there was a woman on there from Ontario, Canada, and she has a candle company, and she walked into the shark tank, she shared her numbers with the shark, er, dragon, sorry, and she, they were looking at her like, yeah, but what's so different about your candle company compared to all of the candle companies out there, and it was her in a lot of ways, it was her personality, it was her passion, She, you know, it was her ability to really connect with her customer base and her audience.

And she started selling these candles online and then started building a brick and mortar chain. And they were all like, that's crazy. Because if you were successful online, now creating a brick and mortar is. [00:12:00] You know, a lot more money investment wise from a capital perspective, right? So why would you go that way?

A lot of brick and mortars go, how do I go online and spend less time brick and mortar in some capacity? And she's done really, really phenomenal. And it was her passion. It was like this perfect storm, this perfect mix. And I'm sharing this because that's how simple marketing and sales can be. I just think we've overcomplicated specifically on the online coaching space.

We've created. This complicated way of marketing and selling, and we've used a lot of height, we've used a lot of, um, false urgency, scarcity, all of those sorts of things to get people to buy. And then at the end of the day, the product or the offer and the person delivering the offer doesn't really stand on its own.

And I am of the mind that if you have a solid offer. And you're phenomenal at connecting with your audience, and you say and deliver [00:13:00] what you promised you're going to, and you do that even over and above what you promised, you don't need all of the flashy things, and by flashy, I mean big, huge, hyped launches, um, Deadlines, bonuses, discounts, like you don't need all of that shit to sell, because the product you have is standalone.

It will sell on its own because it is a phenomenal product or offer, right? Or service that you're offering. And so I want to identify the three phases that I see. Once you have that offer, Really, really solidified and you know what you're offering and why you're offering it. You've got this passion behind it and conviction and you're not just selling the offer to make money or you're not just you didn't just create an offer because it was something that you thought your audience would want, right?

It's actually something that's fully in alignment with you. It's your. Thing that you want to do. You're passionate about it. And it's also an intuitive nudge and pull. It's not the mental [00:14:00] brain going. If I craft an offer this way, then they're going to buy it because that's what they told me that they wanted.

Like, you know, if you think about it, if you're a manager and you're multi passionate, probably, you could probably offer a ton of different things. Right. I do photography. I could do how to do photography online. If I wanted to, I could teach so many different things. But I don't want to, right? I don't want to teach people how to do photography.

That's not, that doesn't light me up, right? I picked up the camera and started taking photos because I liked the creative process. I didn't necessarily want to turn around and teach it, right? But people have asked me, how do you do this? How do you do that? All the things. And it doesn't mean that I go put an offer together because somebody's asking me to do it, right?

And I think that's a big shift that we want to make when it comes to that offer piece of it. But say you have the offer. And you're now put it out into the world and you're maybe seeing sales in drips and drabs. They're unpredictable. They kind of just drop in out of the blue. There's no real rhyme or reason [00:15:00] to it.

And yet you're putting in a lot of effort creating the content, you know, emailing your list, building that list with maybe a lead magnet or freebie or whatnot. And Maybe you're even launching, maybe you've done some launches, challenge launches, webinars, maybe you've got an evergreen funnel, maybe you have no funnels at all set up and you're just like promoting stuff on social media, then I want to give you these three phases and where to sort of focus on what you can do at those three phases, but I'm also going to give you practical examples of like, Okay.

What to do, but also to show you that there's like so many different ways that you can attract people into your world, create that connection and build that trust with them and also then offer the offer that you have. And that that process doesn't have to be long. Like we've also then been conditioned that like, Oh, you've got to move people down this journey and it's got to take all of this time.

And I'm all about being in the long game and I'm all about being building relationships. But people can buy it pretty [00:16:00] quickly. If you've got an offer that really speaks to them, um, and an offer that. Is directly for them, then they can buy pretty quickly. They don't need to move down that journey on a, like a three, four, five month period.

Right. I always say within that first 30 days, like. You should really be seeing some sort of traction or sales in your business. And if you're not, there's really a block at some point or all the points along these phases. So the first phase is what I call the client attraction, right? So we've got the offer.

It's in alignment with who you are. You love it. You're passionate about it. Now it's like, okay, so how do I sell the thing? Well, you do have to attract clients into your world and not just to sell it, which I think is a big issue with launches because it's taught in that I'm going to launch, right? I'm going to put this offer out there.

I'm going to launch it and sell it and I'm going to close my doors. And what often isn't taught. In any of the programs I've 

seen 

is that you still have to grow your audience, right? So if you have an [00:17:00] audience of a hundred people and you put an offer in front of them, and let's just say 50 people buy it.

Well, those 50 people aren't going to buy it again when you launch. So now you have an audience of 50 people that you're putting that offer in front of, right? You want to build your audience and continue to grow your audience. And so you've got to have what I call some type of client attraction in your business that brings people in.

And the biggest question that I get is like, well, what do I do, Catherine? Like, what is that client attraction? And this is where the question is, the sky is the limit. In our brick and mortar, the client attraction that we used, we had billboards on streets. We were, we literally picked a location and paid more for that location because it had high foot traffic.

Right. So our signage outside our store was beautiful. We had billboards around that parking lot area. We did newspaper ads. We did radio ads. We tried a few things like that. And then predominantly we grew on word of mouth. Um, we stopped paying a lot for paid advertising. [00:18:00] Uh, we grew on word of mouth, but eventually over time that would plateau, right?

Eventually over time we would need to look at other things. And we did post. On social media, but not from a sales perspective. And as I mentioned on many podcasts, it was more so what's going on in the store, behind the scenes, that sort of thing, because I knew that if I could get people in the door, I could sell them on the product when they stepped foot in the door, right?

Well, in the online world, what is client attraction look like to me, getting people in the door. Is not just getting them to follow you on social media, getting them in the door is like getting them on your email list, getting them to opt in and raise their hand that they're interested, right? Because if you think about it, them walking over the threshold of your business, opening the door is them going.

Hey, I'm kind of interested in what you have. It's not them walking by looking up going, Oh, cool, a wine store or them dropping by going, Oh, cool, a wine store. It's really easy to follow [00:19:00] someone on social media. It's really easy to like a page. It's really easy to do that. That doesn't mean that they're necessarily.

Interested in buying the product or service that you have, right? So I often remind my clients of that, especially in spellbound. I'll say like, just cause someone's following you doesn't mean that they're like, heck yes, I want to buy. So when you go and try to sell them, let's just say in the DMs, you know, that thank you for following.

Hey, do you want to buy my thing? It doesn't mean that they want to buy and that can be a huge turnoff, right? It's like them just walking by your store and kind of looking out going, cool, I'm going to come back to this place. But when they open the doors to your business and they walk in and they start asking you questions and engaging with you, that's another level of interest, right?

So that would be somebody, in my opinion, in the online world, somebody keywording you in your DM saying, like, I'm interested. Opting into something that you have, but it doesn't mean because they're crossing the threshold that they want, that they're going to actually buy. Right. They're just inquisitive.

They're in the shopping [00:20:00] around phase. As I call it, they're looking around, they're interested. They're warm, they're in your world, but it doesn't mean that they're going to walk away and sell. So you just sell, sell, sell, sell, sell is. going to probably likely turn them off. So when people walked into my brick and mortar, I didn't just say, Hey, do you want to buy a product?

No, I sat there, asked them what their name was. I asked, I welcomed them to the store, asked them if they had any questions. I'm here to answer them. And then oftentimes they would ask me to tell me about the product. Like, How is this different than all of the other stores? I'd go into that discussion with them.

Then they would ask me what my favorite wine is. I would tell them I don't really have one, that I, depends on what I'm eating and how I feel and all those sorts of things. And eventually I would sell them on a You know, a wine kit because I spent the time to educate them. I spent the time to answer their questions.

I spent the time to build the connection, which is phase two, right? So client attraction [00:21:00] is number one, right? If you have an offer, it's like, how are you attracting clients? If you have, if you're attracting clients into your world, the next question is how are you building trust and connection with them?

How are you building that connection with your community? And then phase three is the sale, right? Is the sales part of this process? And then how are you selling, right? How are you pitching the offer? How are you transitioning to the offer? That's the next big question. And again, oftentimes we don't. Use these phases.

We go from like, I'm blasting stuff out. I want you to buy my thing. And we usually miss that connection trust building. But oftentimes we make the assumption that people that are following us and come into our world are gonna just buy from us. And that's not the case, right? There is These phases that we have to sort of work through and there's different things you do at different phases to help support [00:22:00] that.

So client attraction, what is that? Well, in my brick and mortar, I shared with you what we did in my online business. For me, it's my selling the invisible masterclass, right? So I've ads that run to that. People watch the masterclass, then they're invited to book a call and the book, a call. To me is them having been in my brick and mortar and me then answering any questions that they might have about the particular offer, right?

So client attraction is them opting in, providing email. Watching the masterclass and then booking a call is like the next step. It's kind of like, okay, now tell me about what you do. And I have some questions. That's the deep connection community building there. Right. And then the sale is if I feel like they're right fit or they're like, I really want to work with you.

Then I share my offers with them, but you don't see my offers flying around the internet webs, right? Like you don't see me promoting spellbound. [00:23:00] endlessly on Instagram or Facebook, right? You don't see that. And I just, just, just completed a sales page for it because I had people asking me for it. And when I get repetitively asked for a sales page or more details, then I am like, okay, this is a sign that it's time to create a sales page.

But I've been selling Spellbound for almost a year without a sales page. Right. So it's again, we, we think in our brains, 

we need 

all of these things in order to sell the thing that we're selling. And in reality, no, because for me, Conversation is the best way for me to be able to sell me having a conversation face to face with people.

And the funny thing is, is that, you know, you, you see and hear all these messages like, you don't need a sales call and you don't need this and you don't need this. And yeah, you absolutely don't. Right. You don't, but I actually really enjoy it. Right. And so again, I want you to consider your business and the tactics at each phases.

To me, the sales [00:24:00] call is in phase three, right? Is the sales. That's the way that I choose to sell. But does that mean that's the way you need to choose to sell in the online world? Absolutely not. So you've got your client attraction. It could be a freebie, could be a quiz, could be a masterclass. It could be a free hypnosis.

It could be. Join my Facebook community. It could be join my sub stack could be just join my newsletter. I'm gonna write real cool things like Again is like you could do whatever you want to do and then obviously your organic content that you're creating on social media LinkedIn Facebook Instagram all of that is driving people to then opt into the thing that you're putting out there Does that mean you can't sell from your stories and you can't sell from social?

No, not at all. You absolutely can if you want to. But, I know from experience and years and years of it, is that if you're selling too soon to somebody, [00:25:00] That's naturally going to turn them off. Does that mean you don't have people in your audience that are ready to buy now? Absolutely not. Absolutely not.

But the client attraction piece of it is huge to build that community that you're wanting to build. And where are you wanting to build it? Right? What action are you wanting them to take? That's a big question to ask. What action are you wanting people to take? Are you wanting them to DM you? Are they, are you wanting them to respond to a story you put on your stories on Instagram?

Are you wanting them to comment below? What action are you wanting them to take when they're in your world as you're attracting them into your space? For me, it was... In my brick and mortar, I was wanting them to walk through the door. That was the action I wanted them to take. I didn't want them to drive by, look cool wine business.

Cool. Awesome. I'll come back to that. I wanted them to open the door and I wanted them to walk into the business. Cause I knew if I had a conversation with them, once they walked into the business, that 80% [00:26:00] of 90% of the time they walked out having. Bought one. That was, that was the way I chose to sell. I, again, I do that in my online business.

I know that when people come into my world and start to watch my masterclass, listen to the podcast, sort of hear what I have to say. And then when they get on a call with me, there's a natural connection and trust built there. Really, really quickly. It's my gift, right? It's one of my gifts. But again, it doesn't have to be the way you do it.

If you want to sell in the DMs or if you just want to have a sales page that says buy now, you can absolutely do that. You just have to choose what that looks like. And I think that's the thing where lots of times people have those blocks and they get hung up with those in those blocks because we don't really know.

What, how we want to move people like down that customer buying journey, so to speak. So the first phase being that client attraction, how are you attracting people into your world? Is it paid ads? Is it [00:27:00] organically? Is it a combination of the two? 

Is it, 

you know, on Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, Tik Tok? Is it through some type of freebie or lead magnet?

Is it through a free Facebook community that you then build trust there? How are you getting people to sort of walk over that threshold into your virtual 

business doors, 

so to speak? And how are you then cultivating that connection and trust with them? So is it conversation in the DMs? Is it conversation over a sales call?

Is it just emails that you send out? Is it a monthly Q& A that you host where people can jump on and ask you questions? Right? Having people be able to connect with you in some capacity where they can be seen and heard through the questions that they're asking is huge. And again, I hear so many messages from people in the online world that are like, you don't need to do sales calls.

You don't need to, I'm not here to [00:28:00] answer questions. I'm not here to go back and forth. I'm not here to convince people, but here's what I would love to offer you as an insight shift or. Perspective shift, because energetically, when I hear somebody say, I'm not here to answer a ton of questions, I'm not here to go back and forth in the DMs for hours.

I'm not here to take sales calls. I'm really not here to have conversations with the people that are going to buy. Like you either know, or you don't. That energy to me is really off putting. And the reason it's off putting because it feels very one sided. If you think about it, it can, it's very one sided, right?

Can you imagine being in a relationship with somebody, your husband or your wife or your partner, and they're like, it's my way or no way. You either know, or you don't know, like you either do the thing or you don't know. I'm not answering any of your questions. Like it's, there's, it's ultimatum. There's an ultimatum energy there.

Right. And so. That to me is a massive turnoff and I see it a lot and I get it and I get where the [00:29:00] energy comes from because if if we've put a lot of effort out into the world and we're struggling to make sales, that's the energy we shift into almost naturally and I see it right. I've spent hours and hours creating content.

I spent all this time showing up in my Facebook community. I spent all this time sending emails. Two times a week. I spent all this time creating all the content for social and I'm seeing sales in drips and drabs. You know, I'm having one or two people sign up for, um, for a mastermind that I'm putting out there.

I have one or two people signing up for my one to one coaching 

and. 

The effort that I'm putting in isn't translating to the results that I want. It'd be same as a relationship, right? When you're walking through that relationship with your husband or your wife or your 

partner, and you feel like you're carrying 

the weight of that relationship.

Naturally, you become resentful, and that's what that type of messaging to me is, is resentful. It's resentful that people aren't just buying [00:30:00] quicker, and they're not just buying faster, and they're not just conforming to what I want, so therefore I'm not going to put in the time. And that is ultimatum energy.

It's really, it's a turnoff to me, and it just goes to show that We're not really in it to form the connection and help people make a decision. And this has been a big lesson for me, not because I was ever maybe in that state. I've seen that message a lot and I feel it energetically. However, I was of always of the mind that people would buy naturally the way that I like that I buy and the way that I sell.

And it's actually not true. There are. a lot of people that are designed to look at the details. I always think of my one liners and human design, right? Human design one liners are researchers by trade. And so they're always researching. They're always kind of looking at the details 

and they can go deep 

into the details.

And my one liners every time they come to me. They ask me a ton of questions. They want all [00:31:00] of the details and it's not because they're, um, there's some limiting block or something like that and they don't trust themselves. It's naturally how they're designed. They're literally designed to do the research.

They're literally designed to look at the details. And then you've got me, this six liner, who's the big picture, who doesn't want to get stuck in the freaking details. But 

I can sever one liners really, really well, right? With what I do. If 

they're soulful coaches and practitioners. And so I had to do a big reframe around how I communicated and how I positioned the offer and which is one of the big reasons why I ended up writing this beautiful sales page that I, that I've written, which is now on my website.

Is because I realized that there's a lot of detail oriented people and not because like I said, they're, they don't trust themselves or they're blocking anything or they have these limiting beliefs. It's just who they are. They're very detail oriented. And so I also want to be able to support them. And one way to do that is support them in the way [00:32:00] that I'm selling.

So answering 

their 

questions, giving them the answers to the details that they need and require to make the decision. I am very much of a, you know, you know, type of buyer when, you know, you know, when it's very instinctive, it's very intuitive. Again, not everybody's like that. So a big part of that is understanding who your audience is and how to build that connection and trust with them.

And. Dream clients don't mean they walk and talk like you, right? I think that's also 

another big 

misconception that we've seen in the online world, right? Is that we want dream clients to be like us and to think like us and to feel like us. And I don't want that. I want innovative thinkers. I want change makers.

I want people who don't think like me. I want clients who challenge the way that I think. I want clients who I can equally learn from in a lot of ways. 

Right? And so I think we also need to 

rewrite what a dream client actually looks like. A dream client [00:33:00] isn't necessarily the person that Like I said, things acts behaves like we do if we want to 

be catalysts for change in the world Then we don't we want we want to 

promote individuality.

We want to promote authenticity 

and For me that customer 

buying journey with my audience is a very much a two way street. It's not a one sided. It's not a You either know or you don't, and I'm not answering your questions, you know, um, that's not how I 

want to create that customer journey. And I mean, 

not just from people who aren't, who are moving down, deciding whether they buy from me, but I'm also talking about people in my world, 

right?

People that have invested and want to work with 

me, that experience. is designed to support them. So what does that look like? It's not just about it's my way or no way, right? Again, that's very dictatorship. That's very institutionalized education system, right? It's like, Ooh, my clients are pushing my boundaries because the way in which I've 

[00:34:00] delivered the content doesn't.

You know, isn't clear for 

them. I had a client recently say, Catherine, I really need you to kind of reframe this or rework this because it's not really landing and I'm not, I'm unclear of the direction I need to go. And I was like, thank you for asking for what you need. Right. And I absolutely reframed it, repositioned it for and boom, it landed.

Right. 

That doesn't mean that You 

know, clients are pushing boundaries or they're, you know, asking for more than what, what the course offers, all those sorts of things. No part of this business of being in coaching and being of service is realizing that sometimes the way we see the world and the lens in which we're seeing it.

Is very different than everybody else. And that if we 

want true, beautiful 

customer experiences, we've got 

to be able to be flexible 

and fluid in how we deliver it. And obviously with boundaries, right. We also have to think about that, but I'm just saying that if, if clients aren't clear, or there's a lack of.

[00:35:00] Clarity or clients aren't moving through your program, right? They're stuck on something is like, how can we make this experience really beneficial for them? Again, another big learning on my part as a coach is like, again, the way that I move through things and the way that I do things is different than everybody else and vice versa.

And 

so for me to be 

able to look at that from this, You know, unattached on, you know, um, unattached on, you know, making any meaning out of it that like, I'm not a good coach or anything like that is like, how do I serve my people better? That's the question I'm constantly asking. So, you know, those are the phases.

And we want to really think about, again, what's the client attraction look like? And then how are we forming that connection and trust? And it's not necessarily Always about the things we're doing, 

but how we're being 

and the energy behind it and really thinking and having that awareness of like, if I say this, how does that really come across?

Like, what's the energy behind that? [00:36:00] Um, and how is that going to be perceived by the people that are receiving that, which are the people in your world? And if people are investing, and I don't care if they're investing 50, 100, 5, it doesn't matter. Like, how you treat... people based on what they invest to me also doesn't matter.

Right. So I didn't, I wouldn't treat my customers or look at my customers who were buying wine for me at 100, 150, 200 any differently than people that are investing in Spellbound or one to one. Right. To me, they're all clients and customers and that they deserve. to be treated and have that beautiful experience, um, regardless of how much 

they're paying, 

so to speak.

Right? So the question is, what is your sales mechanism, right? How do you want to sell with people? Am I brick and mortar? It was a physical location. And we would process the sale in the store. And then when COVID hit, we, we went 

online. And the 

only reason we went online was, is because the [00:37:00] government at that time allowed us to, by law, people had to come into the business, sprinkle their yeast and come back and bottle.

Those were the 

laws. But when COVID hit, the government was like. Do what you can do to keep your business running because 

we were locked down and people couldn't physically come into the store. 

So we moved everything 

online where people could buy online, 

which worked really well. Now in the online world, in my online coaching business, one of the ways that I 

sell is through Sales calls.

And I absolutely love it. But that's not for everybody. And I get it. 

And if you choose to do sales calls, it doesn't mean that your messaging isn't good enough or it doesn't mean that your offer isn't good enough. Like I heard that message recently and I was like, it has nothing to do with that, right?

You get to choose the sales 

mechanism. To me, the sales call is kind of like people walking through my brick and mortar door, right? We sold a phenomenal offer. It doesn't mean our offer, our messaging is wrong because people walking through the door. It was the way that we chose to sell. And so I don't want you to think that there is a superior or [00:38:00] better than sales 

mechanism.

You get to choose what feels right for you. And there's no one that's going to make you more superior 

or a better seller or prove to some way, shape or form that your offers and what you do is the best again. Think about the energy behind that language when you hear that from other gurus online. Think of the energy and the way that makes you feel in your body.

If you feel in your body that somebody's teaching you something and it feels like, If I don't do it this way, then I'm not going to be successful. Or, if I don't apply this model or method, then somehow, shape or form, I'm lower down the totem pole than everybody else. 

That, for me, energetically 

is always sort of a turn off.

The other big one that I hear is like, I only sell organically, and therefore I'm somehow superior to those that have chosen to run ads. I chose to run ads because I don't want to show up on social media every day, right? I don't want to [00:39:00] be creating content every day. I don't want to hire a content creator to create content for me every day, right?

Again, we get 

to choose what works for us. And so that doesn't 

mean that because I'm running paid ads that somehow I'm not a real business or I wasn't able to crack the game in the organic 

world. No, I just don't feel like being on social all the time. And I don't feel like creating content every single day.

And I don't feel like being in my 

stories all the 

time. That is my decision. That doesn't mean that, again, somebody else is better than me because they sell organically and I sell via ads. 

So these are the, this 

is the rhetoric and the language and the energy that I 

want to 

shift. In the online marketing and sales space, but in marketing and sales 

in general, that any time we feel like there's some type of superior strategy 

or method or way of doing things, 

I want you to ask 

yourself, is that fricking true?

And how was this making me [00:40:00] feel? Is it making me feel less than, which again is like shaming and belittling, or is this empowering me? And putting 

the power in my hands to do it the way that I ultimately want to do. 

So at every phase, the attraction, the connection and trust building, and the sales, you can do it however the hell you want to 

do it.

You get to do 

it however you want to do it. And there's no judgment in that. And if you want to have a hundred steps, Or five 

steps or 10 steps 

in that process, it doesn't make you any 

better than or anything like that. 

It's what is natural for you. What's the natural way that you can attract people into your world, build that 

connection with them, have a conversation with them, and then offer the thing that you want to offer to them.

What does that look 

like for you? What does that pathway look like for [00:41:00] you? 

Again, another big one was, is I didn't want to 

send and be in my 

inbox and sending emails and writing emails. And again, I could hire somebody to do that for me. But I'd rather hire support in my 

team to help me form connections and build trust to help me organize systems in the back end that allow me the freedom and flexibility and sustainability in my business.

I've tried it literally every freaking way. I've built a brick and mortar. I worked 14, 15 hour days there. I never took breaks. There was a lot of reasons why I never took breaks, 

lots of things there to unpack 

to heal all of that, but 

I also have tried a lot 

of different ways in the online space and have also 

worked with so many business owners now in the online world that I've seen all of these cool different methods 

they've tried, you know, that have worked.

And so what I want you to take away from this episode, if there's anything that you take away from it is like [00:42:00] three simple phases in your business that you need to kind of look at 

and decide for yourself. 

How you want to attract people into your world. What does that look like? And not from a perspective of, Oh, I need to post five days a week.

I'm talking about if you could pick any way, shape, 

or form that you attracted people into your world, what would that look 

like without all the rules? Without all of the things that you've been told work and don't work. I'm talking limitless here, like I'm talking, what would that look like? What would showing up in your business from a client attraction perspective look like?

Cause I also think the way in which it's taught is backwards for about 70% of us. The majority of us are generator types. We're sacral beings. We're not designed to go out and get clients. I've said this on some other podcasts. We're not, we're not designed to go out and get clients. And yet, so much of what's taught in the client [00:43:00] attraction phase of a business in the online marketing and sales space is go out and get clients.

Prospect. Find them. Go into other people's groups. Post on social media. Blast your message out there, engage with other people's accounts on Insta, so that therefore you can start up and drum up a conversation. All of those things is going out and initiating, when in reality, manifestos are the ones designed to do that in a lot of ways.

But generator types are not. We're designed to respond to our environment and our world with excitement and satisfaction. And when we respond 

with that excitement and satisfaction, people are naturally drawn 

to us. Which is why... A lot of people that come into my world say people just drop into my lap, and there's a reason for that.

It's just how do we make that consistently happen? We've got to put in the structure and the systems to cultivate that. What ends up happening is we've got these people that drop in spontaneously, which is not really spontaneous. [00:44:00] It's them responding to your excitement for what it is you're doing. But what ends up happening often is that we talk ourselves out of it.

Our mental brain goes, Well, you still need to post five days a week and, and you need to be in your stories and you need to be doing this and you need to be doing this and you're not doing enough. You need to be sending more emails. And so then our Energy becomes very much obligation and a lot less satisfaction.

And then before you know it we're burnt out because we're doing things in the business that we naturally 

don't want to do or where we don't want 

to spend our energy or that's not exciting, right? Content creation is a big one. Content creation in the way that it's taught is a big one that is so not in 

alignment for a lot of 

generator types.

Because it's, we are very spontaneous, 

we respond spontaneously, 

and we respond based on 

the inspiration around us and what excites us, and that's unpredictable and not logical, [00:45:00] right? I don't know from day to day what I'm going to engage with in the outside world that is going to make me want to create a post or content.

Lots of times my greatest content comes from conversations I have with people in my world, forming those connections 

and trust, but also clients that come to me with a question. I'm like, Ooh, the world needs to hear this. My audience needs to hear this. 

Right. And 

I get excited about it. But if I'm trying to force the content or I'm trying to follow rigid 

content pillars or plans or ideas, 

like that's so rigid for me 

as a Manny Jen.

I just absolutely freaking hate it because I'm like nonlinear going after the things that like 

excite me, you know? And so again, it's like, what does that client attraction look like? And I had to do this all of 

the wrong way, like literally all of the wrong way. And for probably 

12 months, I remember staring at my coach being like, there's gotta be an easier way.

that I. Freaking enjoy. Cause I don't 

enjoy this. I'm not having fun doing this. I, [00:46:00] it feels like a job 

and this doesn't feel fun. 

And there was a reason why I would have clients dropping in spontaneously without knowing how, when, where, 

and it was in those 

moments of excitement. Most of all my clients would come when I would share a story about a project I was working on that I was excited about.

And people be like, Oh, can you help me with that? And I'd be like, yeah, absolutely. That's how those would 

come in, but again, unpredictable, 

not consistent, and I didn't want 

to ride that emotional wave. 

I've got a wide open solar plexus. I like things cool, calm, and collected. Just let's keep them even keel in a lot 

of ways, right?

And so that roller coaster of feast or famine really sucked for me, and I didn't want it. I wanted the stability. That's something I craved. That stability in a 

lot of ways. And so I knew I needed the structure and system. And I thought the structure and system 

for a while because it felt rigid, but now that I have it, I'm like, 

it actually allows me to flow.

So. So, back to my original question, [00:47:00] if 

in a perfect world, your 

world, what would client attraction look like for you? And what, what would you do? Where would you spend your time? What would you spend your dime creating? And what would be the thing that you would create to attract people into your world?

To get people excited about what 

it is that you're doing. And then the next phase is how would you build trust and connection? What does that look like? 

Are you having conversations in the DM, like genuine conversations? 

Are 

you hosting a once a month Q& A where people can jump 

on and have that conversation 

with you?

Are you recording a podcast? Every week that, you know, where you show up and you riff and just share what's on your heart, you know, I have a client that does an unfiltered podcast. It's so awesome. Just gets on unfiltered, 

unplanned, spontaneous, shares what she wants 

to share and it's, she's skyrocketed. I think she just started a year ago, has 

over, well over 10, 000 downloads.

Like she's done really 

well with it because there's no script. 

There's no template. She's just following. What [00:48:00] really is on our heart? And 

that's the thing that builds that trust and connection. How are you showing up and being vulnerable? Like, are you speaking the truth or are you methodically trying to move people down a customer mind journey, 

right?

Are you going, 

how do I attract people? How do I build trust? How do I sell? Very formulaic. Right? Where's the vulnerability? Where's the intimacy? How are you inviting people into your world to build that trust and connection? Trust and connection is built on that vulnerable vulnerability, that intimacy with your people.

It doesn't have to be conversations in the DMs, but it can be like real 

raw 

conversations that you're having. You know, if you look around and this is just, there's no judgment here, but if you look around at content, 

this is something I'd love for you to like become sort of aware with. And I used to do this, right?

So Again, 

I can speak on it is like 

looking at the content, every piece of content that I read now, it's always through the lens of like, is this methodical, is 

this like a sales post? Is [00:49:00] it somebody 

trying 

to give me advice on something? Is it, you know, is it 

creative? Is it sparking insight? Is it helping me shift my perspective?

Like, 

this is how I sort of weigh 

things and how I feel about content and marketing in a lot of ways, right? Is 

like, to me, 

marketing and sales shouldn't be formulaic. 

It really 

should be an expression, that creative expression. 

And part of that creative expression is that vulnerability and intimacy, which naturally creates that connection with people.

And then if in a perfect world, you could sell, what would that look like? You know, is it just passive offers off your website? Is it, you know, sales calls? Like, what is it? And for all of you, it's going to be different. Like I said, I love sales calls, but I also know that I missed that human to human connection.

It's really important for me. So getting on, you know, two, three, four sales calls a week for me feels. Awesome. And then being 

able to serve my clients because I'd love having conversation with people, but I get [00:50:00] that that 

can be draining for people or not suitable maybe for your lifestyle. Like 

if you're 

a parent with young children or something along those lines 

that just might not have the space in your calendar.

Like there's a lot of reasons why you might not, 

but again, it's your choice. You get to choose what it is that you want to do. So with that, I hope this episode has helped really simplify. The whole marketing and sales process and how at the end of the day, you get to design it 

the way that you ultimately 

want.

And the more contemplative and introspective you are, and the more you come from that, 

like creative expression, that heart.

Um, because again, most entrepreneurs, we are creators. We are innovators. We want to do things differently. We don't want to follow status quo in a lot of ways. And so it's like, [00:51:00] then we get into our business and it becomes a job and we're like. We didn't sign up for this. I didn't sign up for like another job, you know, where do I get to be creative?

Where 

do I get to play? Where do I get to have 

fun? Well, this in and of itself, this journey that you take people on with you, how can you make it fun? How can you come from a place of, you know, yes, I have this beautiful offering or offerings that I want to share with the world. But like, how do you make that fun for people to come into your world?

How do you make You know, fun for them to want to stay. Like, can you make it a game even, you know, this is something I, I was recently having a conversation with someone like, how could you make it a game for people that there's like curiosity and 

surprise and like, I don't know, the, the idea of an 

amusement park comes up, right.

And we're like, you know, or the advent calendars, right. Like that surprise of knowing you're going to get something when you open the, you know, next. Thing on the calendar, but you don't know what piece of chocolate it's going to be. Or you don't know what [00:52:00] bottle of beer in Canada, we've got beer advent calendars.

I think there's wine ones too, that you don't know what bottle of wine you're going to get, but you're going to get something cool and new to try. Like imagine having a journey like that, where you take people on this, like. Fun game and it's like an amusement park. And then at the end, you're like, Hey, I've got these really amazing offers that will like support you further on this journey of self discovery and life and all of these things.

And then it's like, yeah, heck I want in. Like I just had the best time, you know, I never really felt sold to felt like I was getting so much out of this journey. without even having to buy. And so that's just me riffing. Um, and also always sort of like dreaming about how much more fun can you make the experiences for people, but also for yourself 

in that creational space of like 

how fun would that be to create that, you know, be super fun.

Anyways, hope you're having a fab day. Hope this episode has really helped sort of like distill down the, just the three phases really that you need [00:53:00] in any business. And then. Really help you journal or meditate or go for a walk and just sit with this idea. And anytime something pops up into that brain of yours, like, well, you need 

to send two emails or how many emails do I need to send?

Or 

what is a good number of posts? I want you to throw that out and I just want you to go. If I had the choice and I was the full creator, which you are, what would this look like? Without the rules, without the algorithm, without all of the shit, what would it look like? And then create that, and create from that space.

And I promise you, when you create from that space of satisfaction and power and excitement, you will naturally have people come into your world. It's when we're following these rigid rules that tell us we have to do things, that become an obligation more than anything, is when it's no longer fun. So, um, with that, I'm gonna leave you.

And I cannot wait for next week's episode. It's going to drop. I'm not a hundred percent sure yet what it is. It's going to be, [00:54:00] it's going to be a spontaneous idea. I'm sure, but subscribe because it's going to be good. Cheers. 

OUTRO: Thanks for listening. We'll see you right back here. Next time. You can also find us on social media at creatively owned and online at creativelyowned.com until next time, keep showing up as your authentic self.