How to Use Facebook Groups to Create 10K Months with Michelle Vroom

Hey hey, Kathryn here! I’m so glad you’re tuning in. If you’re new to the show, welcome. I’m so glad you’re here. If you’ve been around for a bit, you know I’m all about keeping it real with you. Showing you all the sides of entrepreneurship (& life). I mean it’s all connected, right? 

I shared one of my favorite Brene Brown quotes,  if you’re not in the arena getting your ass-kicked, I don’t want your feedback. Well, I want you to see me as your friend in the arena equally getting my ass-kicked but inspiring you to keep going because I get it. I’m living it too.

And that the perspectives I share on the show are real life, in the arena types of perspectives, like the one I’m going to share with you today.

But before I do, I’m celebrating the amazing live training we held on February 6th. Missed it no worries…because there is a replay available until February 11. Not sure what the heck I’m talking about…I held another free private training showing thought leaders, changemakers, coaches, and consultants how to create killer messaging in their business that not only sounds like them but sets them apart as a leading authority in their industry.

The training is money…and if there is anything a business owner should invest in, it’s their ability to articulate what they do in a unique and compelling way.

If you’re in business, you’re in the business of words! Words are what connect us and without connection, you’ll have a hard time selling let alone creating the change you want to see happen in the world.

So, if you want to catch the replay, grab the link in the show notes. 

Now let’s dive into the good stuff for today. Michelle Vroom is here to chat about how to use your Facebook group to create 10K months. Michelle Vroom is a business coach with more than 15 years of marketing & PR experience with nonprofits, agencies, and big corporations. Now she helps small business owners grow to 6-figures with more freedom and peace. Michelle believes every woman entrepreneur should be able to get clients whenever she wants. She understands the challenges of limited resources and time and shares her proven methods for visibility and relationship building to get clients and grow your business.

So without further ado let’s welcome Michelle to the show!

PRE-RECORDED INTRO:

00:00 - Kathryn

I'm super stoked to have Michelle on today to talk about how to build a highly engaged Facebook group. I know it's a hot topic that a lot of my audience all of you guys asked me about, but also my clients do as well. So I'm just going to turn it over to Michelle so that you can share a little bit about who you are, what you do and who you help.

00:29 - Michelle

Yeah, absolutely. Hello, I am a business coach who helps women make 10k months using their Facebook group. I'm all in on Facebook groups. There are a lot of reasons why I'm sure that will come up. But that's what I do. That's who I serve. And I am a mom of three crazy boys, ages six and under. I have a multiple six figure business. I've been in business for almost five years. Five years, six years. Wow. Okay, almost six years. Time is flying. Yeah. And I just love the freedom that my business has given me. It's changed my life in so many, so many amazing ways. And I want other women, other moms, especially to to have that same freedom. So that's what drives me.

01:12 - Kathryn

Brilliant. Brilliant. So what did you do before you started your online business? Yeah,

01:17 - Michelle

I've been in the marketing and PR world for 15 plus years. So I didn't, you know, change like industry, so to speak. I just went into business for myself. So prior to that I was working in corporate, I've actually been in all different environments. I've been in corporate environments, agency environment, nonprofit environments, I've done a lot of different things. And I knew that I always wanted to start my own business at some point. But I thought some point would be like when the kids are grown, and I'm in my 50s, or something like that. And I'm like, Well, okay, do I really have to wait that long? Right? All these opportunities just kind of came my way right after my first son was born. I actually started my business when he was six months old.

01:54 - Kathryn

Wow. Wow. I want to dive into a little bit of that, because I do know I have lots of Mama's new mama. So what made you make that leap because I also left corporate five years ago, almost six years ago now and opened a brick and mortar winemaking, which we've now sold, but I spent a lot of years in corporate marketing communications 15 plus years as well. And I know that that transition out of corporate can be scary for people. But it can even be more daunting when you have this like young family that you're raising to is like, what am I doing? Am I gonna actually be able to replace that income? Like, what the heck am I crazy? So I'd love to know, you know, what did that transition look like for you? And what kind of really really sparked it when your baby was so young?

02:38 - Michelle

Yeah. So I think just the the life change sparked it. I mean, I had a great cushy corporate job before, you know, nothing was wrong. I had a great boss, I was making great income. I was actually the breadwinner at the time for our family. But I wanted control, right. I wanted more control over my schedule, my time, all of that. And so when my oldest was born, and I didn't I can't remember I mentioned I have three boys. Yes. My oldest was born. I am. Everything changed, you know, it just in an instant changed for me. And suddenly I didn't want to go back to that corporate job. I wanted to be home with him, but still have a career. Yeah.

03:18 - Kathryn

Awesome. So was there any like, did you have any like fear? Like in terms of support from your spouse? Like, what did that look like? Because that's a big question. I know lots of people ask. Yeah.

03:29 - Michelle

So. So um, you know, all these opportunities came my way at first, right? So I went on maternity leave, had a four month maternity leave, because I've saved up all my vacation time to get that extra month in. And all these opportunities came my way, like family, friends, people in my network asking about social media in particular. And at the time, I was doing full service, I wasn't coaching. And all these opportunities came my way to the point where I had to say, like, do I really want to pass this up? Like maybe the time is now. And so I sat down with my husband and talked about it. He's always been supportive. It doesn't mean that he didn't have his own fears or doubts, right. But he knew that I wanted it. He knew that I wanted something different. And I think he wanted it to write I think he wanted it to and so I literally remember us sitting down it was like a Sunday afternoon, the baby was napping. And we had all of our stuff spread out in the dining room table, spreadsheets, all sorts of things to figure out like, again, I was the breadwinner. So what did I need to be bringing in at a minimum to be able to still pay our bills, right? Like we were cutting all the all the nice to haves. And it was really just a matter of that. And so he was willing to do that work. It doesn't mean that it wasn't scary for both of us. But I think he also knew that like, my mental health was important, right? I had a six month old at home. So trying to do that and work and all of that. And I remember going back to work and it just was also really challenging. As a new mom. I haven't really shared this story before but I think given your audience, it makes a lot of sense to share. I went back to work and I was commuting I mean, I worked from home part of the week, but I did have to commute a couple of times into the city, which was about 45 minutes away. And I remember trying to go like they had a room for like nursing moms. But I remember trying to go. And my schedule was so crazy that I did barely had time to pump. And so what ended up happening is at my son's four month appointment, he had not gained any weight. And I was really devastated over that, like, this is really hard. This is really challenging. And so that definitely played into some of it too. Yeah, might be the time to really leave, you know,

05:33 - Kathryn

yeah. And such a hard thing to write like navigating being a new mom, like making sure that your baby's taken care of, and but then also trying to like keep that career that you've built, and trying to figure out like, what, which way do we go here. And, and I know that on one of our coaching calls this week with my clients, that was a topic that came up is like, oftentimes, your spouse is super supportive, and sometimes they're not. But sometimes they're super supportive. They just don't fully get what you do, but also exactly that carry their own fear of like, where's this going? And, yeah, put that trust and faith in you that you know what you're doing?

06:12 - Michelle

Oh, my goodness, I mean, I think I always knew I would figure it out. But that internal trust can be very challenging to have, right. And that's something you're going to have to continually build up in yourself, even after you've left, right and started your business. And so I left like two months after I went back from you know, to work, and then I left and actually ended up keeping my work like hired me as like a contractor a couple times. So that was super helpful. But um, I remember waking up that first morning that I was full time on my business and being like, what did I just do? Like, what do I do now? Like, I remember feeling that pressure, for sure. And that expectation and that fear. But I kept moving forward, like in spite of that, and gosh, like, I can't imagine if I hadn't done that, like where I would be right now. Honestly, because changed in my business as a result of that one decision.

07:00 - Kathryn

Yeah. And not just because I think is going to give a lot of listeners like that hope, right? Like anybody that's

07:05 - Michelle

I want to get Yeah. Choking courage are the two things you need really, truly?

07:10 - Kathryn

Yeah, totally. Because it does take a lot of courage to make that leap, whether you're leaving a corporate or you're a new mom and deciding not to go back after maternity leave for however long that is. You're based in the United States. I know. I have a lot of global listeners. So your maternity leave is how long, traditionally?

07:29 - Michelle

Three months? Yeah. Sure. I got four because I saved up my days. Yeah. Like I used those days. Yeah, to add a fourth month. And it, of course, was not enough. Like yeah, I can't even begin to say like how I just don't understand how we have such small amount of time. And then us me, that's a whole other topic. But um, you know that that also led I mean, in a very short period of time, over those four months, I literally built up enough of a client base. And I say enough, it's like, it was a couple, okay, it was a lot, but built up enough to be able to leave like that, you know, after two months of going back, and so that required a lot of hustle while it was on leave with my child, you know? Yeah, it was easy, very difficult.

08:15 - Kathryn

Yeah. And talk about the hustle because I think there's culture out there that's like hustle last, which I understand not hustling to a point of like burnout. Yeah, definitions of hustle for sure. Yeah. But building a business requires some grit and hustle requires

08:30 - Michelle

grit, determination, some hustle and sacrifice in not all not in every area. But some areas. And I was willing to do that. For me, that meant sacrificing what a traditional maternity leave would look like, which is sitting around with the baby not sitting around as if you're doing nothing. But I'm sitting with the baby and just like being able to focus just on the baby. I did not have that. Yeah, I chose not to have that. Yeah. You know, for better or worse, like that was the decision I made? And yeah, it did. There are things that are required. I don't I absolutely agree with the no hustle mentality. But I think what I what I mean, when I say the no hustle mentality is sacrificing everything. Yeah, there are still sacrifices that are required. And there may be more in different ways, at the beginning of your business, like there are sacrifices that I make now. But those look a little different than they did when I first started. And so you can't expect to just like sit back and not have to make any sacrifices or any hard decisions or work a little longer than you would like, while you're building something, right? It's like building a snowball. You know, the whole the hardest part is getting that snowball started and getting enough traction. Can you tell when I'm where I live, I'm getting enough traction to be able to, like get it out there. But then as the snowball gets bigger, and amasses more, you know, depth to it, it becomes easier to roll. Like that's how your business is. And so you do need some of that at the beginning.

09:49 - Kathryn

Totally love the snowball reference because it's also like the dead of winter.

09:53 - Michelle

A little depressed about the snow. So those of you in like warm climates, you know, well, I'm a little jealous of you right now.

09:58 - Kathryn

Totally. And it's actually She kind of funny because it's raining here today. So it's like weird to get rained in February, like raining

10:05 - Michelle

and fit off. Oh, he's already cold and then it's raining. It's like why not just kick us when we're down?

10:10 - Kathryn

Totally. I'm not going outside because it's like a complete skating rink out there. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And I still resonate with that is that that it does take hard decisions grit and and grind at different levels and that the hard decisions don't go away, the more you grow your business either No,

10:27 - Michelle

oh, no, it only gets harder, by the way, because then you have more responsibility. And therefore your brains gonna mess with you and be like, you have more expectations, more pressure.

10:35 - Michelle

Totally, totally. So what made you go into and focusing on Facebook groups then.

10:43 - Michelle

So it just sort of fell into it. To be totally honest with you. I've had my group for four years. And so about a year and a half into business, I started my group actually close to two years, I guess, at this point, but um, I needed a place to house videos for a challenge I was running, that was literally all I like, I needed a group. And so I created a group, okay, and was gonna shut it down after the challenge. And then I remember my coach was like, Wait, why are you going to shut it down? Like, why not just keep going? You loved it you have so you had so much fun delivering the challenge? Why don't you keep it open? I was like, Huh, why don't I and that's literally how my group market like a boss was born. And now we have over 6500 Amazing members, this group has made me so much money, like over half a million dollars over the last four years, just from the group alone brought me just incredible clients who I absolutely love, all of that, right. And so it all started with like, again, one decision, but I didn't have a plan for how to do it. And so I sort of fell into it, I think groups are a great fit for someone like me, who really enjoys that organic relationship building. I mean, even if you don't enjoy it, it's hard to make the case that that's not important in today's world. And, you know, based on, like, where Facebook is going, I mean, groups are only going to continue to get hotter, I will be bold enough to say that if you are marketing on Facebook, and you don't have a group, you are not utilizing the platform to its fullest potential. Because Facebook itself has said that it's placing emphasis on communities, people want to be in community, that's what Facebook wants. And so content in groups gets higher reach and the algorithm, more visibility, and you are literally building relationships with hundreds of clients at once. Like I don't know, any other platform that allows you to do that. And Facebook still has massive reach, like Love it or hate it right, Facebook still has massive reach. And I just don't see that going away anytime soon. And even if it did, by the way, there will always be a Facebook, there will always be a place where people want to be in community like in those safe commute, you know, community oriented environments. And so being able to go all in on groups, and now we teach our clients how to do that really is a skill that I think serves you in so many different ways throughout your business.

12:49 - Kathryn

Totally. And I know and I want to dive into that hole, love it or hate it because I do know that I hear people say like, is Facebook still as good as it used to be and our groups still as powerful as they are? And I often think when people ask that question, it's because the group that they've created for whatever reason they've created, it isn't engaged, they're not getting the engagements that are like it doesn't work.

13:12 - Michelle

Oh, my goodness, I have so much to say about this. So that's why they're asking the question. And Facebook like any other platform evolves and changes, right? Like, you cannot avoid that. Unless you just don't do anything on social altogether. Yeah, groups have changed. Are they any less effective? No. Do you have to use them a little differently in terms of getting engagement? Yeah, like, gone or the day. And I don't think that this was ever effective. But Gone are the days where you can just like put up a bunch of sales posts and like get sales from your group, right? That can't be that can't be the main motivation. Now I teach clients how to make 10k months from their group. So obviously, sales is a part of the piece, right? It's the ultimate goal. But how you run your group like it's, you've got to have a long term vision for it, right? It can't just be like, I just want to start a group to get short term injection of cash, because people can sense that. And that hands down is going to lead to lower engagement, engagement fluctuates, engagement is not the most important thing and it fluctuates. So like having the proper expectations for that I think is important knowing that it's going to fluctuate, especially around the holiday timeframe is important. But also just not being in it to like, just be focused on engagement, right? Like how do you beat the algorithm, you know, how you beat the algorithm, you stop worrying about the algorithm, you stop worrying about every single post you put out? Oh my goodness, how many likes and comments didn't get? Like, yes, we want engagement. And that's that is important. And I do talk about that and support my clients with that inside of my main program. But engagement can't be the end all be all there are so many people who watch behind the scenes who are engaging but not in the way that you would define engagement who purchase I think that is happening more and more because people are wanting to vet people more and more, right? Like I work with service providers. So you know, if someone's thinking about hiring you they may be watching more of your stuff and taking a little longer than they used to and that's why a group is so effective. But you also can't expect instant results and expect them to engage in the way that you think they should engage meeting comments and likes. And some of those more, I'll call it vanity engagement metrics.

15:11 - Kathryn

Totally. And I so love that you say this, because I think, you know, that whole like lurking perspective, or just watching from behind the scenes, a lot of the sales calls that get booked through my calendar, or clients, or people that signed up for a challenge of mine, and like, what 2019 2020, and they're booking calls now. And they're like, I've been watching your stuff, and I had no idea that they were even in my space, right. And I think it's happening more and more now, too, because I think people are so used to being sold online, that they're like, the minute I engage, they're gonna like pounce on me to like, want to buy something, and I just want to like, like it or comment it and I don't want to be necessarily sold to right away. I do want to take the time to vet somebody more. And and so I think, yeah, focusing on that engagement. So how do you create engagement or create community, I guess, with your Facebook group,

16:05 - Michelle

you need to be all in and committed to your group, you know, to sell yourself on your group. That might sound weird to say, but there are a lot of people and I think you even alluded to it when you were mentioning like the people asking the question about are Facebook groups effective? Yeah, some of them are maybe not all in on their group. And so they're seeing the engagement, you know, dip as a result, you have to sell yourself on your group, like, Do you love being part of your group, I love my group, like as someone who's working towards seven figures now in her business, I'm in a different phase of business. And so I can't be in my group the way that I used to, which is so challenging. Yeah, I have a team that supports me with that. But I love my group, like I'm gonna go live later, my group and I can't wait, I'm excited, right? I'm excited. Just pop in there until people about it. When you truly love the place that you're showing up, people pick up on that, that that confidence, that excitement, that passion is what breeds more engagement inside of your group. If you want engagement, you better be the leader. Yeah, better because you are whether you like it or not, you are right, you better be the leader and ask for it. And don't just ask for it like verbally, but ask for it by showing what engagement looks like. You can't expect engagement if you yourself are not showing up consistently in your group, and or are excited to show up in your group. So that's the first thing is you yourself have to be sold, if you have any hope of of utilizing engagement because I see people utilizing engagement strategies, but they themselves are not fully sold on their group. And so those strategies are going to fall flat. Right? That's the first thing. The second thing is asking for it. Right? So how can you post with engagement in mind? Like, are you just focused on I want, you know, cash now and clients now? Are you asking people about themselves? Are you actually putting out content that tells people what you want them to do? Like, comment below, let me know this, let me know that we don't tell people what to do. And then we wonder why we're not getting engagement. So even just simple, like we call them calls to action, are super, super powerful. And starting to boost some of that engagement. I would say the third thing is, you know, looking at engagement as a journey with your people, right. So when someone joins your group, how can you welcome them to the party? Because it's your online party? Right? So are you engaging them from the beginning? Are you showing interest in them from the beginning, I think setting the tone, right when they join the group is super, super powerful, and will result in them coming back to your group more more often, right, like more regularly, because that's also part of what drives engagement is you don't just have members, you know, coming once and then never coming back. Again, that will happen with some people, right. But a good chunk of your members are coming back repeatedly, because of what you're sharing. Okay. And then I would say the fourth piece of this is put out really good content. Now really good content, I'm not giving you a formula for that, because there's a lot of really good content. And the really good content is the content inside that you really want to share. Right? So focus on being helpful focus on serving your people, like ask yourself, what do my members need to hear from me today? What would be of best service for them? Right? Like, what tip can I share? Can I ask a question or support them in some way, like just focusing on being of service and being helpful is going to give people that that, you know, a certain feeling, I guess I'll say about your community, and therefore they're going to spend more time in it and they're gonna spend more time engaging with you.

19:14 - Kathryn

Yeah, so brilliant, because I think exactly that. I think, you know, if you're not all in on it, and I often hear people say negative things about Instagram, right? Like, Instagram isn't working engagements down all these sorts of things. And we get in our head about it like, Oh, crap, you know, we're putting all this our heart and soul into our content, so to speak, but we're just not maybe seeing the vanity metric results that that we're clinging to. But the same is with Facebook. When anyone asks that question, I'm always like, how in Are you? How committed are you to the platform that you're using in order to build community that could be in your email or inboxes on Facebook and groups? Do you believe that if somebody has a community started and they're not seeing the results or the engagement that they want or people aren't even interacting in it. It's like a dead group. I hear this lots my group is dead. Ken, how do they revive it?

20:07  - Michelle

Yeah, well, that starts by again, like, reevaluating your commitment because if it died, it died because of you. And so it was your responsibility. And so something about that is off. And I think you need to relook at your commitment. And I was just getting there and start talking like start somewhere, don't recreate a whole other group. Don't even start cleaning house, like just get back in there and start talking to people again, like pick up where you left off, I think we like to make it like really dramatic, like my group died, or my group is, you know, needs to be revived. Like, you don't need to, like do all this stuff or make some big announcement to revive it like, start, let your word like your actions speak louder than your words and just start getting in there and showing up. And you will start to see like, if you're consistent, it might take you a little bit like you can't do that for a week. And then expect results, right? I'm talking like minimum of 90 days, get in there and do that. But then start measuring and start measuring not according to how you feel. But according to your Facebook group insights, every group of 50 members or more has insights, which is Facebook's own data. So some of some of you who are saying you don't have engagement, your group, you probably have more engagement than you realize, because Facebook measures engagement, not just by likes and comments or reactions, but also by who's viewing your content, right? Because Facebook knows that some people are viewing content and not actively engaging, like like visually, right. And so look at your engagement insights, get in the habit of tracking those once a month, right. And you might see that you actually have quite a bit of engagement, most of your members are engaged. The other thing I'll say too, about engagement that I think is important is as your group gets bigger. As your group gets bigger, you're actually going to notice some engagement decrease, and that's normal. That's normal, because you're you've got more people in there, you've probably had your group for a little bit longer and people's tastes change, right? people's needs change. And so some people who were in your group at the beginning, and maybe were really engaged might not be anymore. And that's why it's always important to continue growing and getting fresh faces in. I'll also say this about growth, if you have less than 100 members in your group, you should not be focused on engagement, you should be focused on getting more members into your group. Because if you can continually grow your group with new faces, it's like inviting new people to the party, you don't know which one of those is going to show up being like, Oh, I'm ready to go and like get everybody else engaged and get there, you know, get get get that vibe going like some of your members will do that for you. But if you're not, you know, continually growing your group, depending on where you're at, things are also going to get stale, too.

22:32 - Kathryn

Yeah. So you talk about cleaning house? Because I know that, you know, I'll do this with my email list over periods of time, and I've done it with my Facebook group over time, like, when is it a good time to clean house?

22:44 - Michelle

Well, it all depends on how you're defining clean house. Yes, Facebook has, if you look at the members in your group, there's a section of people who are like inactive, we will update those. That's all we do. We don't we don't I see people and listen, it's your group you can do ever you want, right? I think this is like wrong to do. But I see a lot of people who are posting like, comment here, if you want to stay in the group because they're cleaning house. Well, how do you even know that some of those people maybe aren't comfortable speaking up, but are watching you like do you really want to clean house that badly just for vanity metrics just to make yourself feel a little bit better. Stop focusing on cleaning house and focus on being a better leader and engaging your people and testing new ways of engaging, like, that's what we do, right? We don't do like those, those massive clean house type things. Because we're also I will also say this, I think this is an important metric of engagement. And it might kind of be a different way of looking at it than some people think. We also are very selective about who we let in our group. So we will remain we will we deny a lot of requests from people who are just not a good fit, or who you know, we just don't think are like right for the community. And so because we've been very selective our growth might have on paper and looked slower than other people like 6500 members over four years could actually be looked at as slow, right? Yeah. But our group is more highly engaged and converts, which is I think the most important factor even more important than engagement. Are you making money from your group? Are you getting clients, our group converts at a higher rate because we are more selective so the people who are in there, the environment is just a totally different environment. You don't have all of this like just random promo and people who just are clearly in there not to build relationships like we truly do. I would say the bulk of our members truly do want to be there to building to build relationships, which is also helps with our engagement rate. Right? So I think I think looking at am I placing too much emphasis on numbers and things that make me feel good? Because if I am then that could also be part of why my engagement is lower?

24:38 - Kathryn

Yeah, so brilliant. I always say this to my clients is like the qualified buyers are so much more important than just like growing by the mass. One you're going to have higher conversion to you're going to spend less effort and time trying to get people to do things that you want them to do. Because they're not aligned clients or they're not qualified they're not there. either for your support or create relationships and that sort of thing. So I'm so glad that you touched on that, because it's so important. So what are some of the tactics or things that you do in order to vet people before they even get in the group?

25:12 - Michelle

So some of the tactics that I do I mean, we just know what the criteria is. So people answer have to answer membership questions to get into our group. And so we know based on those membership questions, whether they're a good fit, we also look like do they have a picture of you know, themselves as their profile? Or do they have you know, their dog or a flower or something like that? Like, we want people who are like, you know, who are business owners? And so if we can't tell that you run a business, like we're not going to let you in? Yeah, I mean, so I think looking at their presence, looking at why they say they want to join the group? Do they answer the questions? Like there's some criteria that we have for whether we let them in? What type of business do they have or not for product based businesses? Yeah, we're not for multi level marketing companies, like what we share in there just isn't relevant to those groups. And so we're not going to have them in there. So it's based on that. And then of course, once they're in like, you know, we can't always get it, right. Like, there are some people who maybe start like, dropping things in the group that are not relevant. And like we will, you know, either remove their posts or remove them altogether. But that doesn't happen very often. Because again, we are not afraid to, like focus less on numbers and and, you know, big growth, and focus on intentional growth, which is the most important thing.

26:19 - Kathryn

Totally. And do you have is your group, like, open for people to post when they want to? Like, there's no,

26:26 - Michelle

several ways? Yeah, so so we had a time when nobody could post anything. And then we had a time when it was open for any posts, and we are somewhere in the middle now. Okay, this is a learning thing. And I just was just having a conversation with a client the other day, I was like, you have to create your own promo rules, you can't do it based off of what we've done, we've tested like, this is how we've gotten to the rules that we have now is because we've had different ways, and haven't been afraid to change our minds. It's our party. It's our group, like we can do whatever we want, right? Yeah. And so now, it's somewhere in the middle, where, you know, you can't just drop links and promo posts on the main feed. But if you make a connection with somebody, you can absolutely share a link, you can absolutely talk about your business, right. Like if people are commenting on a post that you created, you can tell them more about your lead magnet or whatever it is that you've got going on. There are some groups that won't even let you ever talk about your business, we're somewhere in the middle, like build the connection and relationship first, and then talk about it, because that's actually going to get you more clients anyway, like, we want to support you in marketing in a way that's going to be effective. And we have to lead by example, inside of our Facebook group.

27:26 - Kathryn

Brilliant. Yeah, I love that middle sort of middle ground. And I do feel like having a bit of a middle ground, but also having like a structure around what you do those people how to show up in the groups. Yeah, and that connection and community, I think it's so important when you're just there to sell. Like, if you're, your energy is just there to sell as the leader of the group, you're gonna attract people into your space that are just there to drop links. And so yeah, of

27:53 - Michelle

course, of course, and there are times where we sell like, we're in the middle of a sales period right now this week. And there are times when there's a little more heavy on the sales post, but because we provide so much value over the years, I mean, there's a year's worth of value and content in there, and we, you know, show up consistently for people like it's not a problem like people want to buy, right when those. So the best way to sell is to pave the way before you ever get on a sales call. Right? Yeah, paved the way through your content. And by showing up in serving, like, that's the best way to sell.

28:22 - Kathryn

Yeah, it makes selling so much easier when your marketing does most of the work for you. How often do you sell in there then?

28:31 - Michelle

Oh, every I mean, every every week, I mean, we, by the way, I would actually say every day. It's just not every day as a sales post, like traditional like buy for me. Yeah, but we are selling every time I talk about what my business has done for my family. Every time I talk about being a mom running a business and how I manage it all I am selling myself, right I am selling what I've been able to accomplish for the people who want to accomplish something similar in the same way.

28:55 - Kathryn

Yeah. And how would you define value like conflict, the value that you put out in that group? Because I do know, I get lots of people saying like, you know, they're in groups that ask, you know, what did you have for lunch? Or what what, you know, what's your favorite vacation? Or what's your favorite trip? And it's like, they're trying to find this happy medium between giving value but then again, I think trying to get engagement or get people to, you know, like or comment.

29:20 - Michelle

I would say that both are one in the same like when you give value you will get engagement to like, do those have to be different, right? I think when you're trying to find a happy balance, you might be like overdoing it and a little separating your group into two two ways of like, okay, well, the value isn't going to get engagement. So I can't post that out. Like it should all be part of getting engagement even if engagement is not likes and comments, right? So what sharing value looks like to me is just you being a real human asking people about themselves, talking to them, asking what they'd like to hear, right because they're they chose to be in your group for a reason they want access to your subject matter. Talking about things that you see in the industry and maybe misconceptions that they might have, being willing to talk about, you know, how you support your clients and the results that they've gotten. Because those serve as inspiration for other people, all of that is value value is you. And I would say, like, for me, I guess I'll use my mission statement, like value for me is giving hope and courage to other women, that they can also create businesses that make them money and bring them freedom. And that's my value. So like, that looks different on any given day, but selling and offering sales calls also falls under that category. It's all value.

30:40 - Kathryn

Yeah. Brilliant. I love that. Because I think yeah, value and engagement should be one of the same, right? If you're if you're providing value, that and, and showing your audience and asking your audience to to engage or do the thing that you want them to do. And there's intention behind why you're doing it, that engagements just going to be a byproduct, it's going to happen and and like you said, and I love when people say this, because I think that whole notion of like I posted for seven days, and nothing happened. And it's like, it's likely going to take you 60 To 90 to start to see some type of traction, or at least be able to understand what's working and what isn't working. You need that time. Yeah,

31:20 - Michelle

that time. And that's the hardest part is managing your mind around that time.

31:24 - Kathryn

Totally. What do you feel like is the some of the biggest mistakes or mid, you know, misconceptions that people have when starting a group? They're not all in? Yeah,

31:35 - Michelle

they're still dipping there. It doesn't mean you can't have a presence on other platforms. But the the other reason why my group has worked so well is because I was all in on it. And people would tell me all the time, you should be doing more on Instagram, or you should be doing more over here. And I'm like, This is my platform. I chose this. I think a lot of people have fear around committing because it's like, well, what if I miss out on something that's over here? I want to reframe that. What if What are you missing out on by not committing? Yeah, right, what are you missing out on by not committing? And so I think the commitment piece is probably the biggest mistake, the one that maybe drives all other mistakes that I see, I think, you know, showing up without, like, showing up and just wanting instant gratification and almost like putting the emphasis on your audience to validate you and what you do when you in fact need to show up as the leader, like, I've seen people be like, Why didn't get any, you know, engagement, our views on my life, so I'm just not gonna do that anymore. Well, it's not your audience's job to like, make you feel good about yourself. Like you have to do that work, right. So I think like putting expectations on their audience that like their audience just wasn't meant to carry. Um, and then I think also just like not having a vision for like, how they want their group to operate like not knowing. It's like, it's like throwing a party at your house and not knowing what you want to do at the party. I think a lot of people struggle with that. And your vision will change over time, like my mind for my group has for sure. But you need to have something right, like some idea of what you want things to be like and what you want the environment to be like. And I think if you have those things, like I'm listing those as the top mistakes, because once you have those things, I think everything else sort of starts to fall into place, it doesn't mean there's not challenges, or there's not learnings or tweaks or adjustments that you have to make, but that those are the core right for success and anything else related to your group.

33:18 - Kathryn

Yeah, so amazing. That whole validation piece or instant gratification, or putting the responsibility on your audience to give you that gratification or validation is such a beautiful reframe, because I do think that we seek lots of people seek that, and I have at times, you know, got disappointed when a post went out and it didn't get the email. And sometimes it's like, I don't even know what I was expecting. Like, I don't even have an expectation, but I'm upset because the likes are lower, the comments are lower, whatever. And and I've worked through that when I first started my business, that was like the thing that I was, you know, would struggle with for sure. But now I've worked through that and totally get that that reframe. But I do know a lot of entrepreneurs still, you know, hold so much of their self worth and value on what they their audiences saying and doing an acting, but also not being, you know, putting that expectation on somebody that they have to show up the way that you think they have to show up either, right? Which I think is so, so powerful. Do you feel like we've covered everything today? Is there anything else that you want to share about Facebook groups? The importance of them? Yeah,

34:27 - Michelle

I think I just want to say this for those who are like, well, are groups effective? Or should I be doing or any platform can be effective? Because it's not about the platform. Like my group is it's not? I'm not I'm not, you know, successful in my business because I chose to have a Facebook group because of me, right? It's because of my desire to show up and willingness to show up. So please know that, like even just choose A group isn't enough, it's you recognizing that true success lies less about, like less with the platform and more with you, and what you bring to the table. And I think that's just a really important message for people to hear.

35:14 - Kathryn

Yeah, I so agree with that in terms of and I saw a lot of the angst around platform and you know, the success of platforms and the weight we put like that, you know, the pressure we put on it for the platform to work for us. When clubhouse was rolled out, and this angst of like getting on clubhouse, and it was like, everybody, you know, freaking out feeling like they're missing out on it. And I just got to get on this new platform, and then tick tock, right. And it's like, every time something new comes out, it's that trend chasing, so to speak. But like you said, if you just commit to one thing and go all in on that Facebook group, you go all in on Instagram, selling in the DMS, whatever it is, if you commit wholeheartedly to it, and commit to showing up as that leader and putting out value, treating people like humans, your audience, like humans, what, regardless of how they interact with you, right, because they could be just sitting behind the scenes, maybe they don't want to comment, maybe it takes them way longer to, you know, be vulnerable, or to, you know, raise their hand and say I need help. And that any platform can work for you if you're willing to do the work.

36:22 - Michelle

Yes, that should be on a bumper sticker. Yeah. work for you if you are willing to do the work and work it until it works. Yeah. Because it's not gonna work instantly.

36:31 - Kathryn

Yeah, totally. Get well. Yeah, totally. Well, yeah, it's been it's been such a pleasure, like connecting with you and chatting all things Facebook group and you sharing your journey to leaving your corporate and going after your dreams, so to speak? Where can people find you if they want support and growing a Facebook community, reviving a Facebook community, just really creating that community and Facebook groups?

36:54 - Michelle

Yeah, of course, the best place to find me is in my own group market, like a boss would love to have you join, if you know, this conversation has been interesting for you, then you're going to love what we put out in that group, because it's primarily around, you know, how, like, why we're all in on Facebook groups, how to grow a group that's engaged, that makes you money, gets consistent sales, etc, etc. So if that's of interest to you, then then definitely we'd love to have you and then I'm also on Instagram market, like a boss and V. And I also have a podcast called so called market like a boss. So Morgan, like a boss. That's, that's the the main thing to remember.

37:31 - Kathryn

Awesome. And we will link all of those links up in the show notes so that people can easily connect with you there.

37:36 - Michelle

But I also Yeah, I want to add one other resource that Yeah, to share for your people. Um, I have a guide, or a bundle, I should say, um, it used to be a guide, but we've made it into a bundle, it's called your first 100 starter bundle. And it's for anybody who wants to create a Facebook group from scratch. So in the bundle, we have a checklist, should you start a group, great place to start for those of you who are on the fence? And then if you're like, Yep, I want to start a group, we have all of the resources and trainings in there about how to start your group, how to optimize it for clients, and then how to get your first 100 clients in or 100 members in there. So even if you have a group, but it's like a baby group, or a group that needs to be revived, like this is a great resource. So I'm happy to share that with your listeners as well.

38:18 - Kathryn

Brilliant. Absolutely. Yeah. We will link that also up in the show notes for people because I know, like I said, a lot of my audience is like, either How do I revive this group built? Or how do I start one or is starting one good?

38:31 - Michelle

Yeah. Your first 100 starter bundle is absolutely the best the best place to go for that.

38:37 - Kathryn

Awesome, brilliant again, it's been Yeah, such a pleasure having you on the show today. I cannot wait for our audience to get their hands on this episode, because I think you shared a lot of really great wisdom around just growing a group but also around marketing in general on like expectations and all of that. So it's been a pleasure.

38:54 - Michelle

So great. Thank you for having me. Awesome.

39:00 - Kathryn

Now on Episode #40 – We have another special guest on the show! Andrea Freeman. And I’m excited to have Andrea on because we are diving into how to leverage your mindset to uplevel your business. But even deeper than that we are diving into the topic around the art of receiving. We often talk about how to cultivate an abundant mindset but what does that look like, and what does preparing yourself to receive abundance look like. It’s going to be an amazing episode, so be sure to tune in next week.