How to Overcome the Fear of Getting Visible Online with Hollywood Actor Florence Andrews

Kathryn Thompson: [00:00:00] Hey, hey, super stoked that you're tuning in this week's episode, and I cannot wait to dive in today's topic because we're talking all things visibility. And if you're listening to this episode, my guess is you're an entrepreneur and you know the importance of being visible. You know the importance of standing out online.

And getting seen, and what better person to have on the show to help us navigate things like perfectionism or imposter syndrome, or just being afraid to show up and actually be seen than a Hollywood actor, somebody who spent the majority of their life performing in front of large crowds and on large screens.

Yes, I have a Hollywood actor. On the episode this week, Florence Andrews, she starred in the host of Gucci alongside people like Lady Gaga, El Pacino, Jaredo, just to name a few. She was also the leading role of Rosalie Mullins in the original London cast of School of Rock. She spent a lot of her time in West End London performing, and now she's a visibility coach for female coaches, and I cannot wait for you [00:01:00] to hear what she has to say all around visibility and overcoming these blocks because there's so much wisdom here.

In what she has to share with you. So without further ado, please welcome Florence to the show 

Florence Andrews: after generating over a million dollars in sales and selling one of her businesses with a single email. Your host Katherine Thompson, takes an unconventional approach to marketing and sales. So if you are ready to tap into a more powerful way to be seen, heard, and a sought after entrepreneur in your industry without having to spend endless hours marketing your business and chasing clients, you are in the right place.

Be The Sought After Entrepreneur podcast is here to help you ditch the cookie cutter one size fits all approach to marketing, and use your unique energy to effortlessly attract the most aligned clients when you do this. You can spend less time marketing your business and more time doing your soul work and enjoying the richness of your life.

Welcome to Be the Sought [00:02:00] After Entrepreneur podcast. And here's your host, Katherine Thompson. 

Kathryn Thompson: Hey, hey. I am super stoked to have flow on the show today to talk all things of visibility. Uh, without further ado, I'm just gonna pass it straight over to you so that you can share with our listeners who you are and what you do.

Yeah. 

Florence Andrews: Hey Catherine. It's so nice to be on. Thank you for having me. I'm psyched to be here. So I am Florence. I, uh, am a Hollywood and West End actor, and I am also a visibility coach and business mentor. And essentially I help female coaches out there to get out of hiding and step into the. Spotlight of their brand so that they can scale their impacts, their income and their juicy icon factor from the inside out.

And I love what I do. Uh, also a mom of two crazy feral children. So it's a, it's a busy life. 

Kathryn Thompson: I love it. I love it. And, um, I wanna dive into a bit of your story, because you mentioned being [00:03:00] an actor. You've starred alongside, you know, Al Pacino, lady Gaga, Jared Leto in the house of Gucci. Mm-hmm. What led you to then transition to be this visibility coach?

Florence Andrews: Yeah, sure. So, um, I mean, I've been acting since I was really young, acting and singing. Always knew I wanted to perform on stage. And yeah, that was kind of like my beeline that I was making for many years and for a long, long time I was working in the West End. That was my main kind of bread and butter. So, For many years, and there was a period where I was kind of becoming the resentful understudy, so I'd always get like first cover to the female lead and I'd never quite get the lead.

And even though in many ways I was super grateful I was doing what I wanted to do, I was pla paying the bills from it. Um, I knew that I was capable of more, but I kind of had this. Tug of war inside me, between knowing what I was capable of and not daring to like shine out and let myself have it. Like I would constantly self sabotage.

Um, I had [00:04:00] really bad stage fight. I would go through phases of really bad stage fright and. You know, I eventually started noticing this pattern. I remember my mom said like, why, you know, you, you always seem to get ill just before like a big opportunity, like what is this? And I was like, it's, it's only stressful cuz I'm Ill, I'm not doing it.

And eventually I had to realize something was going on and I was really getting in my own way. And I suppose that kind of hit a climax when I essentially had a panic attack through a two and a half minute solo on stage in front of 2000 people. And I remember every second of it and it was horrific. Um, but I'm kind of grateful for that moment now looking back because it was that draw line in the sand moment where I was like, okay, I cannot actually do this career anymore if I don't sort my head out.

Like I'm not gonna get where I wanna go and I'm not even enjoying it because, That was her, that was a horrible experience. So that was kind of the moment where I really decided to commit to accept that there was some inner work to be done and commit to that. And that kind of [00:05:00] really got me into the world of mindset.

Um, I studied performance psychology alongside this amazing sports psychologist who's ex athletes, um, who, who did sir. Sports psychology and then was starting to work with actors and singers, all about how do you perform with fear? How do you perform your best under pressure? And that really helped. And then that kind of led me into the more woo world of universal law.

And then of course everyone who writes those books as an entrepreneur. So then I started geeking out on that. So for many years, and, and that really, really helped to turn my career around literally a, a, a few months after that journey started, I got my first leading lady role. So I really had that evidence quite quickly of, oh wow, like I, this, this stuff works.

Um, So, uh, yeah, that, that, that was my journey for a long time. And so for many years, really coaching was that kind of thing where people would ask, Hey, if you weren't an actor, what would you do? And I was like, I'd be a coach. Yeah. So it was always there. It was kind of a side passion just to help [00:06:00] myself.

Um, you know, I had like all the Hay House books stacked up beside my bed still. Do you know, I was, I was one of those. Yeah. And, um, and then fast forward to lockdown and, um, that first lockdown came. I just had a year out with to have my second kid and cuz I was self-employed, you know, money, I was lucky enough to have had.

The money, uh, to put aside to do that, but the money was running low, so I was like, okay, I need to get back to work now. Sorry, this was just pre the first lockdown and then three days back into a new job, the producers came to us and said, Hey, listen guys, it's not, we're not gonna do a show tonight. You've gotta go home.

The thiss gotta close. Hopefully we'll be back in a few weeks. And this will blur it two years later. So, um, you know, quite quickly as we all did, I kind of realized how serious this Covid thing was and how much it was gonna change things, and it might be here to stay for a bit. And it was kind of terrifying because I was.

The main breadwinner at the [00:07:00] time of the family. I've got my two kids and I was already pretty low from taking the year out, and it was almost like this kind of huge chasm had opened up before me and I got to decide what to fill it with a new, which was actually. Scary, but also really exciting because, you know, I don't know if you experienced this, I, I know, you know, I suppose it's a privilege that I got to experience this, but you know, I had a chance that like the pressure was off.

Yeah. You know, it wasn't like I was taking a step out and the world was still going and I had that hamster wheel feeling of, oh God, I've gotta get back on. Yeah. Everyone had stopped and so it was like permission to rethink and. To try something different and what have I got to lose? So that was when I decided to certify and I did a couple of certifications just to kind of really, um, add to my toolbox and really feel like I had the, you know, the confidence to hold space for people.

So, Then you kind of went into, um, you know, getting a lot of business mentorship and spending lots of money I did not have on a [00:08:00] lot of mentors and programs. You know, it wasn't working for a long time. It was very scary. Um, but it was actually when I started. Again, I kind of hit a bit of a rock bottom. I realized no clients were coming in.

There was this pro part in a moment, in a a group program I was in where we'd just done a money mindset module and I was great at that. I've always been big at like visioning big. Yes, I am wealthy, I am rich. I was like all for that. And then the next module is money management, and they're like, you need to go look in your bank account.

I was like, shit. Yeah. 

Kathryn Thompson: Don't make me do that. No, no, 

Florence Andrews: no, no. I'm good at doing the la la, la I'll. Vision. Vision. I'm not good at looking at the reality. Yes. And like you need to have both. I was like, God damn it. So I looked in and it terrified me. I realized that we were really close to not having the mortgage.

And I remember my partner came back and I just crumbled. I just cried and cried. And I think more than money, fear, it was. The guilt and embarrassment and shame I felt around having [00:09:00] invested so much in, you know, what, if this was a pipe dream, what is this gonna happen? I just felt so guilty. But again, that was probably that second draw line in the sand moment in my story where again, I had that choice to make.

It's like, okay, I could either, Give up, stop this, this idea about a coaching business and um, you know, go get a menial, you know, low paying job somewhere as a lot of actors were doing at the time, understandably, and just play safe. Or I could really ask myself, hang on, am I really living my message? Yeah.

You know, am I really doing everything I need to do? Am I actually practicing what I preach in terms of the inner work and the, all the things that had helped me turn my acting career around? Right? Yeah. So I always decided to kind of reverse engineer what it. To helped me change my acting career around so fast and apply it to business and I, it sounds like one of those like myth mythical legends, but it really is true.

Within two, two weeks after, again, after that moment in the kitchen crying to my partner, [00:10:00] I had my first 5K week and amazing. That was when that Ball of momentum started rolling and yeah, about two and a half years later, here I am. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. Yeah. So amazing and such a. You know, a story that so many entrepreneurs can sort of resonate with, right?

Like these moments in the sand where we're drawing a line going, like, we have a choice to go one way or another, and what are we gonna do with that? Yes. And how you've, yeah, you turned your, your acting career around, but then also turned. The business around, right. In that, yeah. That moment. Yeah. And you talked about, um, a sports psychologist.

I know when I grew up playing varsity soccer, competitive soccer, you know, psych, the psychology of being able to perform, and there was something you said that really resonated with me. It was like, in those big competitions, I would get hurt. I'd have this injury that would come, or I'd be like training for something, going into a big competition and all of a sudden spraining a bloody ankle and it's like, where the heck did that come from?

No one's around me and all of [00:11:00] a sudden I just completely roll my ankle. Yeah, so. In terms of the fear of like performing. Cause I know a lot of people listening are gonna go, you know, if you're a Hollywood actor and you have fear of getting on stage and you have fear of performing, you have fear of the pressure.

Like I think sometimes we look at actors and go, oh wow, they've got a lot of like gumption because they're getting on stage and putting themselves out there so visibly, yeah. But the truth is, is that. You can have the stage fright. And so talk to the listeners about, like, share with the listeners about the fear and like overcoming that fear.

Are you talk like are you working through it? Are you performing through it? How do you navigate that? 

Florence Andrews: Yeah. Yeah, I think, you know, I think I, when I entered the entrepreneurial space, I realized really quick how needed this work was, because I really do see that, especially those who kind of in their first few years of business when it's, a lot of it is usually about organic kind of attraction, content marketing and, and just showing up on, on social media.

That visibility. [00:12:00] Fear, I think is a huge bottleneck for a lot of people. You know, I think there's a lot of people out there who know that they could get better results if they could show up more consistently or in a way that felt good. And I think one of the mistakes. People often make is we think that we need to wait till we feel confident to show up.

We need to wait till the fear has gone. Yeah. And the thing is, there's a favorite quote that I've probably said on every single podcast I've ever been on. Um, but I'm just gonna be that boring person to repeat it cause it's so good. There's a coach called Rich Lipin. And he, uh, says that confidence is a result and not a requirement.

And I think that really speaks to this, that I think it's, so much of it is about changing our relationship to fear and that even that physiological feeling of fear in our body so that we can learn for adrenaline, essentially to give us the edge, like, and actually elevate our performance rather than hold us back.

And so often with things like performance psychology, it is about [00:13:00] reframing it. So rather than. You know, say you're about to walk onto the TEDx stage for the first time, it's so unrealistic to try and calm down. Yeah. Like, you know, we don't wanna be in an adrenal state every single day in our business.

Right. I think it's good and realistic to have a bit of hustle in your back pocket. Yeah. But you know, yeah. That's like the day-to-day is when Yes. Like we wanna be doing that meditation. We wanna be living from a, and working from a place of as much calm as we can. But I don't think it's always realistic to expect that we can get into that space when we're about to essentially enter what is a fight or flight situation.

It's somewhere we've never been before. The stakes feel high to us. It really matters that we get it right. Yeah. Um, and so the, this is what I used to do a lot in auditions. I would be like, I'd be like, calm down, calm down, do the deep breathing. And, but the palpitations would still be there. The, the weak needs would still be there.

And then I would get myself into a spiral because I'd be saying, crap, I can't calm down. This is bad. Or, no, I can't come [00:14:00] down. I'm nervous. Nervous means that I'll mess up. And I think we can do this, even if it's just pressing, go live on Facebook. We feel like, like, That fear surely means that I, I don't dare like pres go live while I'm feeling this because I could mess up.

So I think one of the things is like stop waiting to stop feeling scared. Cuz if you are someone who is ambitious, And you wanna go places and you wanna get results that you've never had before. You're gonna have to do things you've never done before. Yeah. And that are outside naturally, therefore outside of your comfort zone, which means it'll feel uncomfortable.

So much of it is about getting used. To how to, um, reframe our relationship with that feeling of discomfort and realize that it can actually help us rather than hold us back. So one simple reframe is just to be aware that the difference in our body between excitement and fear is negligible. Like someone said that fear is excitement, but without the breath.

Right? Yeah. So often we are really excited about something. We've [00:15:00] still got the same heart palpitations, we've still got the same dry mouth. We might have butterflies, you know? Um, and so really it's not about what we are feeling in our body. It's about the story we are telling ourselves about what we're feeling in our body.

So, So even just a simple exercise like, okay, you're about to go and host this live masterclass you've been working towards, and you're feeling all the palpitations and you're feeling the nerves, rather than trying to like breathe deep and calm down, which you know, might make you feel worse cuz it might not get the result you want.

Instead, ask yourself like first. Start noticing kind of for the long term, where do I start feeling it in my body when I get nervous? Like for, it's different for everyone. For me it's always the palpitations, right? So, okay, once I know that's where it generally starts for me, now I can catch it early next time it happens.

So you notice that feeling in your body. You interrupt the thought pattern. So before you attach that to some thought, that's gonna spiral you into this whole sorry story, right? Yes. That's not gonna be [00:16:00] helpful. Interrupt it and replace it with an anchor thought that is about, like, based on what you're excited about, that is within the context of what you're about to do.

Like it's, it's real, it's genuine, like it makes sense to your brain, right? So I'm so excited to share. You know, all this goodness with these people who are gonna show up or even, I'm so excited to have that huge glass of wine when I finish and tell my boyfriend I did it right. Whatever. I'm so excited for this to be done.

Like whatever it is for you, that feels true. I'm so excited. I'm so excited, and. I, I remember the first time I tried this and I was like, this is exhausting. Cuz I had an afternoon, uh, like an audition at about 4:00 PM and I woke up really early and all day I was feeling nervous. So all day I was like, I'm so excited, I'm so, like I can't do this.

Um, but you know, it's a muscle that you build. You're carving a kind of new pathway and in your mind and in your nervous system, um, that becomes kind of automated and, um, You know when I actually got to sing in that audition, I [00:17:00] genuinely was so excited, so amazing. You know that next time you feel those palpitations, your brain goes, oh, that's why she's gotta dream up.

That's why she's got heart pump, cuz she's excited. Awesome. No need to sabotage, let's. Do this, right? Yeah. And so that way you can actually, you know, often as well then you walk on that stage, you press go live, you click into the zoom room, let everyone in. Often you'll find that when you can do that and make friends with this fearful feeling.

Yeah. Um, but reframe it. That that adrenaline, your body will really give you an edge. You'll come out with some wise stuff that you've never said before and you'll be like, holy shit, where did that come from? That was amazing. I wish I could coach myself. Right? So, um, I think it is a mix of. You know, doing some of that work, looking at what some of those narratives are you're telling yourself, but also knowing that, I think for a lot of us, you don't always need to unpick like, what happened in my childhood?

Why and the whys. Yeah. That work is important for many people at different times, but I don't think it's always necessary to be able [00:18:00] to, um, start forging a new pattern. Sometimes you just need those little tricks, um, to your mind. Yeah. 

Kathryn Thompson: I love that because I think we love to make meaning, our brain loves to make meaning about why am I feeling this way and why do I have heart palpitations and someone else has dry mouth?

Or how can somebody stand on stage or speak live on social media or deliver a masterclass and look like they have it all together. They're not shaking, but maybe their hands behind the computer screen Yes. Are just like vibrating. I get the shaky legs and shaky hands. Oh. So it always made it hard for me to like hold a piece of paper.

So I got really good at. Like not scripting myself or needing that piece of paper. I got really good at memorizing what I needed to say so that mm-hmm I could move my hands and talk with my hands and, and hide the, the jitter. So, Yes, but I love that it's sometimes just having those tricks and not needing to even go down that rabbit hole of making meaning, because we all get nervous.

Whether you're a Hollywood actor or you are a [00:19:00] business person that has to go live on social media, or you just have to speak in front of a corporate boardroom, you know, we all, there's always nerves that are gonna come forward. It doesn't mean. That you shouldn't do it or that it's not meant for you or, or whatnot.

Yeah. Yeah. And so often 

Florence Andrews: like that fear is a cover to our deepest desire. Yeah. Like often that's the place we need to go to get to that next level. And so often, you know, we read that fear, like we're still governed so much by like these caveman kind of. Primal evolutionary psychology, like parts of our brain.

And so essentially you peel back the layers and we're all worried that if we go live and it goes wrong, we are going to die and be eaten. You know, like when you peel it back. So, you know, just, and, and, and knowing that I've worked with some amazing actors and very successful, famous people, they all get nervous.

Everyone gets nervous. It's not that some people are cool, calm, and collected, and it's remembering as well that you know what the audience sees. What people see is they're not seeing the [00:20:00] internal experience someone's going through, right? And people are seeking the gems, right? When someone's watching your live.

Your mind might be looking for the way you fluff up or way you say the wrong thing or way you forgot to do something. Everyone else who's watching like that's not useful to them. Why would they be looking for that? They are selfishly there, understandably to like seek out that one thing that might help them and that's what they're looking for and therefore that's what they're gonna find.

So I think as well, it's letting that. You know, that service side, that impact side, like who it is you're speaking to and what one thing may simplify it, you want 'em to walk away with. Um, focusing on that makes the message be bigger than it being about you, because that's not what they're looking for.

Like, that message is what connects you both in that moment. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. And that's so beautiful because I think, like you said, we're, we're so concerned about what, how we are perceiving how we're feeling, but then how we think other people are thinking about. [00:21:00] What's going on when in reality. They're not even looking at that.

I remember organizing events for big corporate functions, and I remember it feeling like chaos behind the scenes like we were chaotically organized, but it was just like, oh my gosh. Like if somebody could see what's going on five minutes an hour, a week before this bloody event. Yeah. It's like, ah, you know?

Yeah. And then you roll it out and everyone's like, that was the most amazing event. It's got the beautiful details. And if like, if you only knew Yeah. The chaos, you know, the delivery didn't come on time or the whatever, and it's like they can't see behind the scenes or inside. Yeah. What's going on inside.

And like you said, they're, they're really looking, they're there selfishly wanting to learn something to garner something from you as Yes. As their coach, as their mentor, um mm-hmm. On, you know, as you're showing up. Mm-hmm. So in terms of visibility, what are some of the things you see that really hold people back when it comes to showing up online and maybe hitting [00:22:00] that upper limit?

Yeah. 

Florence Andrews: I mean, I think a big one of it is just that, you know, fear of judgment, fear of being found out, the imposter syndrome thing. Um, fear of ridicule, you know, all of these pieces. And I think a lot of it is, again, like it does come back to a lot of this evolutionary psychology because our brain has not had time to catch up with the speed at which our society and culture is.

Has forged forward. So we are living in a modern world with this like archaic little caveman inside. Yeah. And you know, and it's really got like no perspective. Yeah. You know, it really does think things are life or death when they're really, really not. And so even if we can know that consciously, so often our nervous system is still really feeling it.

And I think especially when we are coaches, we are leaders, we are guides, we, you know, Essentially we're holding space for people in that moment, say, of that masterclass, you know, or that live launch [00:23:00] challenge. We are essentially putting ourself in that alpha role. And that's really scary because if you are saying, Hey, for this moment I'm the alpha, as in I'm holding space, I'm leading, I'm guiding, or again, on that kind of evolutionary psychology level, um, there's a lot of pressure there.

Like if we're a bad alpha, if we're a bad leader, if we don't do, if we're found out that maybe we're not meant to be the leader, we might get ostracized from the tribe. We might get like, you know, thrown out. And so, yeah. I th I think that's, That's the one I see the most, just that typical like fear of failure and I think sometimes a really potent question to ask yourself like is.

Simply what is the alternative? Because so often when we look at that and ask ourselves, okay, this is terrifying. What's the alternative? We always have that choice. We don't, no one's forcing us to do it. Right? But what's the alternative? And am I okay with it? I think can really help. And, and I think also it's a mix of, you [00:24:00] see, you know, a lot of people, when they see the words visibility coach think, you know, okay, it's all about SEO and hashtags and this and that.

And even though I do teach strategy, I think it's, it's both that inner piece of confidence in yourself and owning who you are and realizing as well that. The best leaders, the best alphas, uh, came here to stand out, not to fit in. So we are also really, really programmed to belong, to fit in cuz that's safe.

We don't wanna be seen like on a very deep level. We do not wanna be seen. Yeah. We don't wanna be the one with our head above the parapet. Right. And yet we are required to go against that in business. Or in any kind of success that's outside the box. And I always say like, if you've got these fears, like congratulations, you have a healthy, normal human brain, right?

It's doing exactly what it's meant to do, which is to stop you going in direction when it can't predict the outcome and to keep you in what you know, right? That even if you're [00:25:00] miserable there, at least it knows the outcome. It knows you kind of can survive it. That feels safe. Um, but it, but yeah, it means you've got a healthy, normal human brain, but success outside of the box, success is not normal.

So we have to learn how to override that. And I think, you know, on many levels, just, just being aware of some of these things, um, and why they're there and why you're feeling them, can help create that gap between that thought or that feeling. And you. Yeah, I mean, there's so many things, uh, uh, while I'm talking, there's so many different things popping off my brain that I could go down and talk about, but yeah, that, that's definitely up there.

That fear of judgment, fear of ridicule, fear of falling flat on your face or being found out. Yeah. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah, yeah. I love how you talk about, like, it's the thought and the feeling, right? It's like it's separate from. It's separate from kind of who you are as a human and what you're here to do. It's like this thought and this feeling that drop in, but it's also really normal.

Yes. Again, we go back to meaning [00:26:00] making and trying to make a me like there's something wrong with me because I am, I'm getting jittery, or I can't, losing my words or my train of thought. Yeah. Or I can't remember what I'm about to say. Or I'm scared that if I go live Yes. In front of a, you know, 10 people or a thousand people, that they're gonna Yeah.

Find me out or ridicule me or, yes. I'm gonna stumble on my words or whatever it might be, but it's normal. Yeah. Like, regardless of what stage you're standing on, it's normal. It's normal to have those feelings. 

Florence Andrews: The stage keeps getting bigger, right? Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, as soon as that what was outside of your comfort zone is now your comfort zone expands all the time.

Right? So the more, if you are stepping in the direction of your, of your dreams, of your goals, Then hopefully that comfort zone is expanding because there's something called like the competence, confidence cycle, right? So yes, you need to take action with the fear and learn how to do that and build that muscle up.

And by doing that we gain competence, which gives us more confidence. Um, but [00:27:00] you know, as soon as you've done that, then there's another goal that's now outside of your comfort zone. So it really doesn't end. And I think, you know, people try and. Wait for these thoughts that kind of flash through their mind to go and, but unless you're Tull or the Buddha, like they're not going to Yeah.

Unless you reach enlightenment, like those thoughts will flash in. But I think just simply to know that they are not you, your mind is not you and you are not your mind. And the more you can start to really get to know what those regular sentences are. Cuz often they're on repeats. Like our brain is lazy.

It likes automation. Yeah. So if it sees like a situation that kind of fits into a certain box or category in your mind, it's like, oh, okay. Like that's that situation. And you know, it's as soon as you can start realizing how that works and, and just knowing that that voice isn't you, you can start to create that little gap between reaction and response.

Like, we're gonna react. That's often gonna be the [00:28:00] case cuz we're human and that's okay. Like it's okay to have that jolt of adrenaline. It's okay to have that thought. Come in, we're human. It's in that gap between the reaction and how you choose to respond, which is a practice. And it won't happen every time cuz we're not perfect.

But that's where you start carving new pathways. And actually, so, Being able to go, Hey, listen, little voice, you know, I see you, I hear you. I realize you're trying to keep me safe. You know, it worked at some point, um, usually a lot of these sabotage strategies really worked for us. At some point, you know, we learned, like you said, we.

Grow up making meanings of everything that happens to us to try and work out like how to survive in the world and how do I, how do I keep getting love? How do I keep getting attention? How do I avoid getting punishment? How do I, what do I need to do to fit in at school to not be bullied? Like we find these strategies and coping strategies and they worked for us up to a point.

Um, so it's, it's remembering that those little voices, [00:29:00] they're not you, but they are thinking they're doing the best for you. They're trying to keep you safe. And I think sometimes what people try and do is they do that whole, you know, which can be quite prevalent in the coaching world, like kind of. Toxic positivity of la, la, la, la, la.

I'm high five. I'm high five, I'm high five. Right? And like, just not gonna go. There're not gonna go to that shadowy place. And the more we do that, the more it's gonna kind of push against it and become stronger. These voices, these fears, these concerns, they want to be seen. They need to be acknowledged.

They need to be heard. And actually we gain so much more power, we can go Okay. Like I see you. Yeah, I hear what you're trying to say. Thanks, but no thanks. I'm good. And just refocus our attention to the impact we wanna make, the message we wanna share why that's important and let that desire be stronger than the fear.

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. And it's so true, right? It's like that positive, um, that toxic positivity of like, just say the affirmations and meditate and say the affirmations and all of that [00:30:00] will just go away. It's like, yeah, packing up things we don't want and shoving them in a closet and just hoping that they just don't reappear.

But, but they always come. They'll hit ahead for sure. I. For sure. Totally. So I, I would love to know, you know, what are some like tips or hacks or tricks? I know you shared like a couple there, but like, you know, I think the other mentality, there's a couple of questions I have for you, but there's a, there's that mentality that we go that once we sort of overcome this mm-hmm.

Like these things, we, we won't bump up against them sort of again. But, you know, as you go into like auditions or as you show up online as as your leader, like. These things can still reappear. Yes. Right? Yes. Yeah. Totally. 

Florence Andrews: Yeah, absolutely. Oh gosh, where do I start? There's, there's so many things. I think, um, I, I think remembering that, you know, it's.

Perfection is really nothing to do with having high standards. Having high standards is great. [00:31:00] It means that we care. It means that we know what we're capable of and we wanna put something good out there. Perfectionism is really fear of failure tied up with a pretty bow, and so really, So much of this is about building muscles, right?

And the more that we can take action with the fear, even if we don't remember a word we said, um, because we were just such a jittery mess and we just about got through it, like the more that we have evidence for our brain to go back to, right? So it is like a. We start building a new story about ourselves.

You know, you can't have imposter syndrome or you can't have that story about, Hey, I never finish anything, or I never have the guts to actually press go live if you've just done it. But now your brain can't hold that story anymore. It's like, and then explodes, right? So, So often people see the mindset work as one thing, and then the action is a separate thing that comes after an action that actually, unfortunately, a lot of people don't wanna hear this.

Yeah. Is a big part of the mindset piece as well, because it's, it's often what's needed [00:32:00] to do that final like killing of that limiting belief. Um, so I think, you know, sometimes it's just about finding evidence for yourself before you've managed to create it in your own life. So even if that's looking for like proof that it's possible in people you admire, right?

So. I would ask anyone here who is like constantly hesitating on putting their website out or on putting, doing that masterclass because it's never quite ready. Right? It's that delay tax. It's never quite ready. It's not quite perfect. You actually need to tweak this. I'm just gonna procrast plan on Canva for a little bit longer.

Right. You know, scroll back to the beginning of like Marie Folio's YouTube channel or Jenna Coach's Instagram or anyone. Right? And you'll see that they didn't. Start at this level of glossiness and you know, some, I can't remember who it was who said this, but there have been studies done that show that those who have a really high level of success that's kind of outside of the box success usually have a lower bar for what they believe they [00:33:00] need in order to start.

Yeah. Right. So, As Seth Godin says, be willing to write the crappy first draft. Like be willing to be a big crap. Yeah. Cause it's not like it's still gonna be so much for someone. Yeah. Right. So when we've got this, like when we're this type A personality and we have got this big vision of like, we can touch, we can just about touch on our potential.

If we've got like quite a fixed mindset, it's so scary to give it our all because what if we. Not as good as we feel that we are. Yeah. And it's not about that potential is somewhere we move towards and we've gotta go through to get there. Right. And even our worst is going to impact someone out there.

Right. So I think remembering that there's also something called the Performance Line, which is a really lovely performance psychology tool, which again, Is all about reframing and really, you know, essentially you write a horizontal line, you put not one on the left end, a hundred on the right end. You know, it's a kind of [00:34:00] percentage line and you look at something.

Okay. I don't know why I keep talking about masterclass. I think because I'm in a mastermind right now where that's what we're doing, as you know. Yeah. Um, So that's my example right now. So think about that master class you're gonna do. Uh, you, maybe you're about to do it tomorrow. Where on that scale from zero to a hundred, do you feel like, you know, yeah, I can confidently smash it to this percent, right?

Yeah. Okay. So, okay. I feel like, yeah, I've got about this, 30% of this is fears and doubts, but I reckon, yeah, 70% I've got this. Put a vertical line down where 70% would be, and on that left hand side, that's the north to the 70 that, you know, you can. Smash. Yeah. Tell me everything that that is. You know, all the ingredients of that, right?

Maybe it's just that you know you've got a lovely smile. Maybe it's that you know some of the people that are there and you love them and you know they already love you and your content, you know, they're gonna enjoy this. Like, whatever it is, just write, find evidence from your past where you smash something that you know you were nervous about beforehand.

Write it all those pieces down so you know what [00:35:00] builds that. Zero to 70, and then literally you can write a list if you, if it helps at the 70 to a hundred. But it what, whether you do that or not, cross that out and make it clear in your mind that this is for your practice time. This is for your mindset practice.

No one gives a shit about it to be, to be frank. Yeah. As in like to be kind, but like, The people coming to a masterclass, like I'm sure they'd care and they'd resonate if you talked about that. But essentially that's not for them. That's for you. That's, that's got nothing to do with the masterclass. That's for your own practice, your own time, your own personal development, right?

So what you wanna focus on is the performance zone, which is the North 70. You know, you've got, and you just wanna give a hundred percent of that 70% and that I know everyone here can do. Yeah. Right. So again, just these little reframes of, you know, having that on a piece of paper in front of you just to remind your brain No, go there.

No go there. No go there. Right. That's, um, so I think, you know, there's all sorts of, um, [00:36:00] little exercises I could share. I suppose one last piece I'll say is that yes, even though I call myself a visibility coach and I do a lot of the inner work as, as well as I kind of call myself a good mix of Woo and do like, I have that inner work and the strategic piece.

But the piece in the middle, I really see as kind of brand including messaging. And I do think that your brand gets, the more you allow it to be an extension of you and allow yourself to, you know, it's probably gonna be a bit divisive the more authentically you you are, because it's gonna be clear cut on what you are and what you're not, what you stand for, what your values are.

Um, I think that that really helps too, cuz what I see a lot of in the online world is not just visibility fear, but visibility hesitation, where we're kind of almost always like going to do a reel, but we just kind of like, it gets a bit too much and too complicated and uh, too much resistance. Right.

Often that's more about lack of clarity. And [00:37:00] clarity brings confidence. And if we know what it is we wanna say, the message gets to be so much bigger than us. Right? And so I think that's another piece that people often forget is a big part of confidence online is just knowing what you came here to say and owning that.

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. And the owning it bit that authenticity, right. Can kind of like swirl back to that fear of what if I show who I truly am and what if I put that stake in the ground of like, this is what I stand for and this isn't what I stand for. Is like that head peaking up and being like, I don't really wanna be seen.

Yes. You know, in the pack of your pack, your tribal pack, right? It's like, I don't wanna be that person. That kind of stands out. But that's all part of being, especially in the online space where there's lots of noise. It's like, yeah. You are. And if you are that trailblazer thought leader and you're here to change the way we do things, that visibility of like really standing in your own truth and authenticity is a huge part of being visible.

Um, oh my gosh. But it's [00:38:00] also equally yeah, as as scary to do that. But you've given everybody a lot of. Reframes, which I think people will start to think about this differently because I do think it ev a lot of stuff is so heavy on the strategy. Yeah. And we forget about that mindset piece of how important that is to actually move through and bust through that next level of, you know, that upper limit that you keep hitting.

Right? It's like you there, there's a reason you're hitting that upper limit, right? That mindset. And perfectionism is huge. I know my listeners are gonna resonate with this because, uh, I think last episode I shared that whole thing about fail fast, fail forward, um, which is something a coach of mine in the very early days of me starting in the online world was kept saying to me and I kept ignoring 'em.

You know, I kept playing in Canva and perfecting the slides and, you know, and it was like the logo matters. Yeah. The logo matters. And I remember my husband saying at the time, he was just like, You know, probably a hell of a lot more about marketing and business [00:39:00] than a lot of the people you're talking to Kathryn, like mm-hmm.

If anything, stop playing in that, you know, that 70 to a hundred space and play in the one to 70 space. Obviously he didn't say it that way, cuz that's your analogy, but it was, but he was kind of saying like, just you could go out and smash it. And people would take something away from it and I just remember being in that perfectionism, right, of like, oh, I've gotta have it perfect cuz someone will call me out or absolutely.

What if I 

Florence Andrews: fail? Yeah, absolutely. I think a massive skill as well that that can take a while is learning to lead your. Self like, yes. I think it's so important to always have some kind of mentorship. Like I always have some kind of mentor, at least one mentor or coach or program I'm in because we all have those blind spots, right?

I mean, need that help realigning back to our best self and that community is so powerful. Um, But I think what can happen again, especially at the beginning I see it a lot, is we get kind of this shiny object thing where we are looking for the answer outside of ourselves and we're seeing everyone else as [00:40:00] this guru.

And in doing so, we're drifting further and further away from our own power and our own leadership and our own intuition. And no one knows our business as well as us. You know, we could. The, the problem is, you know, there are 1,001 ways and strategies to get to six figures, to get to seven figures, and they all work for someone and everyone's teaching the one that worked for them.

Like it's the only one, right? Yeah. It was for them. Right. And so I think it's very, very easy to kind of start almost, we learn to paste over our, that little voice going, yeah, but this isn't me, or this doesn't feel right. Yeah. Um, because we so want what our coach has, and actually often, even if. We were to, through grit and willpower alone, ignore that voice and do every single step they said, and we got that result.

Often we've put our ladder up against someone else's wall and that result is heaven to our coach and hell to us to live within. Yeah. Through all different versions of success. Right. And I think, you know, the. The way [00:41:00] I see it with strategy is like if it was all about the strategy and like, just give me the how.

And believe me, I still go there regularly even though I say this, which is what we need to learn. Right? Who am I kidding, right? Yeah. But if it was all about the, how anyone who'd ever read a Russell Brunson book would be a millionaire, like, you know, that guy gives you, you know, There are a ton of books out there that will give you the 10 steps to create six figures, seven figures, you know, where in theory we could follow it and do it, but it's, it's, I really do believe that rather than, you know, I see people come to me and say, Hey, I want this.

I wanna have this. And they start there. When I have that, I'll be able to do this and then I'll be that. Right. It's have to be, and we've gotta flip that mother on its head, right? Yeah. No, because you're essentially that your, your strategy here is saying, I'm gonna stay the same person that I've always been with the same thoughts, decisions, behaviors, beliefs, and wait till I have the thing that I've, yeah.

I'm hoping to get different results than the ones that all those [00:42:00] internal things that make me who I am, have given me and get this thing and then I'll be this person. You gotta become it first, right? That whole, I don't know who said this quote, but life doesn't res, uh, happen to you. It responds to you.

Yeah. Like it, it really does start there. And I think, um, it starts that, this is why I love the work you do as well. I think it starts within us, but then it also, that needs to infiltrate into our brand and then even into our strategy and like really trust yourself. And the way, I mean, the way I see visibility and any kind of strategy really is that it is an amazing, like if you're looking at say, visibility strategy is a thing.

It's a big megaphone, it's a microphone. It's this amazing amplification system where we get to reach way more people. Right. We need it. It's awesome. Yeah. But. It's not worth. Can I swear on this? I should have asked you before I swear, trooper. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah, totally can. 

Florence Andrews: It's not worth shit. Basically, if we don't have [00:43:00] something really potent to put in the front of that microphone, cuz what the hell are we amplifying?

And it's, it's the energy and it's the message and all the things in between that make people connect to us. That make people choose us over someone else to work with that excite people that ignite something and people that make people go and like obsess over your account for six months and then finally join or just jump in straight away.

Like people buy from people. Yeah. And most people listening here today, I'm guessing if you're working with someone and I were to ask you why them and not all the other people doing something similar to what they're teaching is so often it's like I just. I just something about them or I just love them, or I just trusted them, or they just make me feel a certain way.

Right? Yeah. And so, That is the piece that makes people invest. The strategy is the amplification system that we need. So people can feel that. Yeah. But if we don't have that front end bit, which so many people skip over and think it's fluff. Yeah. It's like foundational. It's [00:44:00] non-negotiable. And it's that fuel as well that keeps you going when.

You know, the inevitable curve balls do come along and test 

Kathryn Thompson: us. Yeah, and you know, it's so interesting cuz I think, I mean, again, everybody listening will probably at some point resonate with the stories and the journey because I know I've gone through that whole thing and talk about going through the vortex and the online space where I lost.

I stopped trusting myself. I'd come from the offline world successful, and then came in this online world and was like, guru, tell me what to do. And completely went through that whole journey of like looking outside of myself for the thing that was gonna like. Completely help me be successful. And really at the end of the day, the mindset, the inner work, the coming back to who you truly are.

Yeah. So that you can amplify that is when things start to really click. Because yeah, like you said, people feel it. Um, and we overlook it because it's like this intangible thing or this invisible thing, right? It's like the [00:45:00] strategy can give us that roi or there's a way to measure that roi. Like if you apply the strategy, you'll 10 x your results.

You know where Yeah. In reality. Then add the mindset to it and you'll 20, 30, 40 x years old. You know what I mean? Like, oh my god. 

Florence Andrews: Yeah. Right. And you know, there's this whole, I think like as in the rest, everywhere in our society, we live in a very divided world, right? You're either extremeness or extreme that, and I think we see that in the online.

Face of, and understandably, people are really like kind of marketing their way of doing things. Yeah. As the way, but you know, like I, you either launch or launching stem, you've gotta evergreen or is this or that. The thing is, if you've got your messaging really down, even though it can, like we're not getting a tattoo on our face.

Right? Yeah. It can change as we change. And I know you're like, you are, you are the, the master with the messaging. Um, but you know, if we, if we. Clear on who we are and we're really living our message, which I think is the best marketing you can do. Cuz then all you gotta do is document it and people can feel it and it's inspiring.

They're like, holy shit, I want some. [00:46:00] Yeah. Um, but you know, if we've got those pieces down, then oh my gosh, you don't just have a launch, you've got a launch. Experience that people never forget and you feel they feel different even if they didn't know you on day one to day five. Yeah. That's so much more likely to convert way higher.

You got an evergreen funnel again, you got the messaging that's true to you and the energy and all that piece in there. Even in your prerecorded webinar, it's gonna do so much better. So you can, all these strategies work, like I said, and we need them. But the thing that gives you that kind of. Unique magic source that no one else can compare to.

That blasts or comparison nights way is really owning who you are and what makes you different. And what I found ironically is often it's the very thing that people feel is what makes them not fit in, and they're therefore not confident to. Like feeling they're not enough in their niche. Yeah. Is the very thing that if they were brave enough to put at the front and center of their brand, would really cut through the [00:47:00] online noise and speak to their people.

Yeah. And so if you are brave enough to put that at the front and almost like, you know, think of your business as a movement rather than a business. And then go cheat, then do anything evergreen. Passive courses launching like whatever, referrals only it will all like amplify ev Well, any of those strategies.

So, so much more. And you will actually enjoy the process more. And what's the point of we're not enjoying the process right. 

Kathryn Thompson: 1000%. 1000%. And then exactly that. It goes back to that confidence and that, you know, the bravery to put yourself out there, which is all grounded back into that like visibility, the mindset work, the psychology, what is that brain thinking, the thoughts, the emotions, the actions that it's creating, which is why your work is so amazing because like you said, and, and I'm a firm, firm believer of this and have witnessed it in my own business, right?

Mm-hmm. Is the minute I went back to being who I truly was. The business exploded. Do you know what I mean? Because it was like I was trying to do it the [00:48:00] way that everybody told me. And we all, we all do this. We all do this. And I tried launches. They worked. I tried Evergreen. It works. Like you said, they all work.

But the thing that really works is when you're true to who you are and actually selling from a place of that authenticity, then that offer becomes irresistible and honestly can sell. Any way, shape, or form, right? It all starts back with that, like that message and what is, what are you putting out there and why are you creating the offer in the first place?

Yes, 

Florence Andrews: that and how were you creating it? Yeah. Yeah. And I really do think that actually, you know, as you were talking, I was just thinking how I really do feel that messaging and energy work, they're kind of so connected because one really is like the physical verbal manifestation of the other almost, you know, it is that clarity.

And I think that does help so much with that visibility piece and that fear. Because when you are gen, genuinely. Sold on your own message and [00:49:00] genuinely excited as heck about it. And it's your message that you believe in, not what you think will sell that excitement. It's like if you go and have an amazing meal at a great restaurant, it's so easy to sell to your friend because it's real.

You're like, oh my God, you've gotta eat there. It's so good. It's easy to sell, right? So like be your own first client. Like get it. Do what's true to you, cuz then you're gonna feel so excited about it that that excitement to share. What you really, really believe in will be bigger than the fear of showing 

Kathryn Thompson: up.

Totally, totally. Because it is hard to, you know, to put something out there that doesn't feel right. Like as much as we think, oh, we'll do the thing that so-and-so told us to do, or we'll put it into this sort of cookie cutter mold, um, it's, it's, it's harder to like to, to do that in the long run because it just doesn't feel right and it will feel like you're pushing.

Hard to make sales, as I always say, it's that hard push to make [00:50:00] sales. Yeah. Think because it's just, it's not clicking. Yeah. 

Florence Andrews: Yeah. And then thinking even just about the content around that, like. You know? Yeah. I can feel the weight on it of me already, like, oh, I don't really, I'm not interested. So that reel's not gonna happen today that like, you know, it makes everything a weight.

Totally. And because we're constantly coming up against inner resistance, there's a misalignment and people can feel it. You know, if you don't have that confidence in what you are saying or what not in terms of, you might not feel confident going live, but if you don't believe truly, or you're not truly excited and confident in that way in what you're selling and your message, people on some level can feel that they're not gonna be sold on it either.

Like a, a good example is, I remember. When was it? Maybe about a year ago I did a launch and my, I had two mentors in different ways at the time, say, you've gotta put like your price way up. Yeah. And so I was like, okay, I kind of understand their reasoning and yes, in theory, and if I'm like a big coach then my price should be [00:51:00] this.

And so I did, even though I wasn't resonating at that price, it just didn't, you know, whether maybe there was mindset work to be done, I don't know. But you know, I just wasn't Right. And. I would get to these sales calls. I had all these calls booked in and I'd get to the price and I, I thought I was kind of, you know, saying it without my voice going quiet or anything going on, but I had so many people saying, Hey, yeah, I'm gonna have a think.

And then their feedback when they came back was, I don't know what it is. I was really into it. I was basically there, but there's, I've just got this feeling, something feels off and I knew what it was and it was that I wasn't confident. In the price I was sharing. And if I'm not, how can they feel confident going, like, no one who's lost at sea wants to go cling onto another person who's lost at sea.

Right? Yeah. People can feel it when you're not in leader mode with yourself in integrity and alignment with yourself. Um, and I was following, I was following what the boss had told me to do, right? Yeah. And so that's not attractive, that's not [00:52:00] safe for someone to cling onto, right. And say. Yeah. Um, so I think, you know, whether it's.

Yeah. Pricing or sharing about your program or, you know, really trying to impact with your message. You, we are doing ourselves a disservice by sharing what we think we should say, or what we think sells or trying to be somewhere not, you know, um, I, I had a client who wanted to, who was, who was at the beginning of their business and wanted to be like a money mindset coach and like a wealth expansion coach.

It's all about money, energetics, money mindset. And she said in one call, um, the problem is I just don't feel I fit into this niche cuz I look at all these other money mindset coaches and then they're on their yachts and they've got their blow dried hair and you know, they're like, there's this, there's this look and it's not me.

Yeah. And she said, I'm just someone who loves. Like, you know, having muddy wellies and going for a walk in the woods with my dog and having a pub lunch, and I was like, oh my God. I said, you would be the only fricking money mindset, wealth expansion coach out there like, You've gotta [00:53:00] even call your company something like muddy weather.

Like Yeah. Yeah. There are so many women out there who don't resonate with that other image or that other idea of wealth and success, but who wanna sort their money mindset and who will see you owning that as your difference, putting that in the front of your brand and goes, God, she has come along. This is, I love this.

And other people go, oh my God, not for me. That's not like exciting, right? So the more we can. Yeah, own that and trust that there are people out there who are waiting and longing for someone just like the real you to come along. 

Kathryn Thompson: Totally, totally. 

Florence Andrews: We're letting 

Kathryn Thompson: that go. Yeah. Yeah. It's so interesting because recently in the last like six months, that's the thing I get from people.

I clicked on your ad because you look like me and for the longest time, the longest time of my career background in marketing communications, right? It's in corporate, was all buttoned up suits, nice hair, makeup, and there's nothing wrong with that. There's absolutely nothing wrong with [00:54:00] that, but I'm someone who like doesn't really wear makeup, is maybe more of a tomboy look, you know, I'm in leggings and a sweatshirt half the time, like that's how I show up, and I never really felt like I fit.

Into the marketing world. And when I tried to fit into it, it always felt weird. And so, yeah. It's so funny because I, like I said, I just started to really show up as my own self. And Yeah, you're right. Is that people are like finally a marketing person that looks like me. Yes. You know? Yeah. That I can resonate with.

And again, nothing wrong with maybe the glossy brand, you know, all done up with the makeup. Nothing wrong with that. But people will resonate with who you are as a human. Mm-hmm. And invest in you. Yeah. And others will invest in those that resonate with the heels and the whatever. Right? Yeah. Like it, it is what it is.

And so I think that's such a beautiful story and how to really look, you know, I have clients sometimes will say to me, Well, I want to [00:55:00] do this, but it's so different than like what's being done in the industry. I'm like, brilliant. Cuz you're gonna cut through the noise, as you said with your client. Right.

It's like, please put this out there because you'll be the one that really stands out from a visibility perspective. Yes. Cause everybody else kind of has that look and that industry. So how can you make it different and not different? That's not in a, like, in alignment with who you are, but like Yeah.

Showing up as yourself. Is that, is that different? So yeah. So beautiful. Well, it's been such a pleasure chatting with you, and I know my listeners are gonna love this. Is there anything else that you would love to leave with them before we wrap up? Mm, 

Florence Andrews: what could that be? I really feel like, and I, this is probably cliche, but just do it with the fear anyway.

Just honestly stop waiting to feel confident. Stop waiting for those voices to go. It's gonna be uncomfortable and I promise it's worth it. On the other side of that, Fear and that live where you don't remember a word you said, you've still [00:56:00] helped someone and you are one live closer to where you start really enjoying it and tapping into that flow state and like the way is through.

So know that your fear is normal and just get going. The time is now. Love 

Kathryn Thompson: it. Love it. Where can people find you if they want to connect with you? Sure. 

Florence Andrews: So I would say my website, but it so needs an update. Don't go there yet. Yeah, I think I would say, I'd say my online home is really Instagram, so if you come and follow me, I'm at Florence underscore Andrews underscore coaching, and you'll be able to see a whole load of links there to different freebies and ways to go deeper with this work.

Um, once you click on the link in my 

Kathryn Thompson: bio. Yeah, I absolutely love it. And your content is amazing if you Yeah, it's, I, I see the acting skills come out with the reels and stuff like that. It's just so fun. I love your content, so definitely go check out her content cuz it's amazing and we will, uh, link up the link in the show notes so that people [00:57:00] can access it easily.

But it's been such a pleasure having you on. I cannot wait for our listeners to hear this episode. 

Florence Andrews: Oh, thank you so much Catherine. Thanks for having me. 

Kathryn Thompson: I gotta talk to Florence for hours. She dropped so much wisdom around visibility and performance anxiety in a lot of ways, right? That fear of really being seen, that fear of increasing our visibility.

Things like perfectionism, imposter syndrome, the fear of being seen and maybe rejected or not accepted for who we truly are. All those things creep in, and she's given so many little hacks and tips and tricks on how to overcome that. So if you wanna connect with her, be on this episode. Absolutely do.

We've linked up all of her links in the show notes now onto next week's episode. I'm really excited about this one. I'm going back solo, but I have an important episode queued up because I've been hearing a lot of conversation in the industry, and I've talked about it a little bit, but I've been hearing a lot of conversation about people hitting plateaus in their income.

Or feeling capped or [00:58:00] like the strategies that you're using are no longer working. And I have a unique perspective about this on how to identify what is actually going on and perhaps how to shift through that. So if you want to tune into that episode, then be sure to subscribe to the show so you don't miss it when it drops.

Cheers. 

Florence Andrews: Thanks for listening. We'll see you right back here next time. You can also find us on social media at creatively owned and online@creativelyowned.com. Until next time, keep showing up as your authentic self.