The Power of Co-Creating with the Universe Instead of Forcing Solutions through Mental Effort with Katie Hunt

INTRO: [00:00:00] After generating over a million dollars in sales and selling one of her businesses with a single email, your host, Catherine Thompson takes an unconventional approach to marketing and sales. So if you're ready to tap into a more powerful way to be seen her and a sought after entrepreneur in your industry without having to spend endless hours marketing your business and chasing clients.

You're in the right place. Be the sought after entrepreneur podcast is here to help you ditch the cookie cutter one size fits all approach to marketing and use your unique energy to effortlessly attract the most aligned clients. When you do this, you can spend less time marketing your business and more time doing your soul work and enjoying the richness of your life.

Welcome to Be the Sought After Entrepreneur podcast. And here's your host, Katherine Thompson. 

Kathryn Thompson: Hey, hey. I am super stoked to have [00:01:00] Katie Hunt back on the show today to share some more updates, um, that have kind of transpired over the. Last couple months since we last talked about all of the amazing wins that she was experiencing in her business and now even more.

And so I'm just really excited to have this conversation with you because I know so many of our listeners are going to get so much out of it specifically around sort of the alignment piece of things and how things seem to be coming in more effortlessly and what you're doing and whatnot. So I'd love for you to just share with our listeners what's changed since we last talked.

Katie Hunt: Well, things are really starting to move now and I think when we last spoke I was sort of still in this testing phase where I was still following my gut and I was testing things out and I was starting to see some evidence of things going on. And so I really just dove into trusting myself more and I now am starting to see the results on the other side [00:02:00] of things.

So, I've had more people enter into my business than ever before. I've had more sales than ever before. And the best part is, is that it felt easier Than ever before, which is triggering, please don't go anywhere, but it wasn't as much of a struggle as I was making it in the past. And it's not, it's something that I can absolutely do again and again and again, because it wasn't an exhausting launch.

It was something that felt right for me in my own energy that I'm now able to just rinse and repeat and just see where it goes. So that's me in a 

Kathryn Thompson: nutshell. I love that. I love that. And I know that when we talk about effortless, right, like, Oh, things are coming in more easy and effortless and they're just flowing and all the things.

And that can be really triggering, especially if you're in a season of hard or have been in multiple back to back seasons of hard, you can almost kind of [00:03:00] roll your eye at it like, okay, yeah. Right. I've heard this before. Like I'm making more money in my business than I ever have yada, yada, yada. Because when you're in that season of hard, it's like.

Why is it so freaking hard for me? And I want to unpack this a little bit because I think this is a really important conversation not only for those that are in a season of hard to provide them with some form of like hope and belief that there is expansion and This beautiful transformation that can happen on the other side of that hard and that we've all kind of gone through it in our own right in our own business, but also for those that might be experiencing success in their business, but are feeling like there is resistance in maybe their sales and in their marketing.

And that you can make those pivots to come even more into alignment to create sort of that effortless flow. So when you pivoted into this sort of new niche, this new offering and what you were doing, can you share a little bit about what that is so that if those that haven't listened to [00:04:00] the previous episode, they know kind of the pivot you made and then how you started to kind of follow really what felt good for you and your energy.

Katie Hunt: Yeah, so I started out focusing my efforts on creating peace for people. So that was a lot of anti anxiety work, right? Like people who are really stressed out and burnt out and anxious. And I was really driven to support these women with creating more peace. And what eventually drove me to make this pivot is I was really trying to make myself fit into that business, which in all different ways, which we can get into.

And eventually I just got to this place of exhaustion because I was doing so much and it wasn't equaling the results that I really wanted. And so I let it all go because I was sick of fighting it. And one day I just received this little nudge from the universe, like, why don't you help [00:05:00] people to attract love?

And I was like, oh no, I don't want to do that because that's not, that's, I'm not an expert in any, any regard. But I continue to lean into that and question it. And I sort of pose the question of like, if I'm, if this is what I'm meant to do. Then fill me in like show me the path and ideas started popping into my head and I said well make it easy And so I decided that if I was going to try this pivot That the only way I would do it is if I could do it in my own energy And in my own way, and if it was going to happen, it was going to be simple.

It doesn't necessarily mean easy or effortless, but it's going to be simpler than what I was doing in the past, because if it needed to be done, if success required me to do so much and to put in so much effort, then. I didn't really want it that bad. And I didn't really, I didn't really get to that place until I hit such a point of burnout in my own [00:06:00] business when I was focusing on the peace and anxiety element.

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. And I want to dive into how you were trying to fit yourself into that business and what you were. Trying to do to be successful because in our work together, the messaging was on point. The copy was great. We were seeing results with ads and people opting in and all those sorts of things, but the results on the back end of it weren't translating to sales and yet we had tipped all of the boxes when it came to high converting copy, high converting funnel being set up, all those sorts of things.

And I want to highlight this point of it because I think sometimes we, And I've been there as well, where we create the thing that's exceptional. And we're like, this is exceptional. The offer is exceptional. People have gotten transformation from it because you had people go through it. It was converting on paper, except for the last nugget of it converting into sales.[00:07:00] 

And that's often for me, a sign when somebody is doing something for like six months, And we're doing all of the right things, quote unquote, but we're not getting the results that we desire. There is an alignment piece here. And so I want you to share, how did you feel like you were trying to fit yourself into this, this?

Katie Hunt: That's, yeah, this is a, and I think if you're feeling like you are putting in all of this effort. That it maybe is time for you to take a step back and, and reflect for sure, because I think that there's that difference, right? When you're doing all of this work, but it feels really good and you just haven't seen the results yet.

It feels a lot different. And I think that we trick ourselves and I know that that's what I was doing. I was tricking myself into believing that all of this effort that I was putting in was. I just had to keep at it because eventually the sales would come in. And I think that there's a different energy to it where it's more like forcing, like this has to work.

It's a grip. Yeah. And so [00:08:00] some of the things that I was really doing there was, I don't think I was truly listening to my own self and how I actually wanted to run my business. I think I was so wrapped up in all of the things that I should be doing and. I wasn't giving myself the permission to find my own way.

I was sort of, and I think where all of this was coming down to and why this hit me so far out of alignment, because the work I was doing was really important and I loved it. And I think what it comes down to is underneath all of my actions, my underlying energy was this has to work. Oh God, what if this doesn't work?

Like maybe this will work and that goes to everything. Maybe I'll get brand photos redone because then people will sign up for me. Maybe I will invest in these ads because then people will come and talk to me or then people will want to convert. Maybe I need to master my sales process. So then that will finally work.

And what I was doing was I was looking [00:09:00] for what was wrong in everything, which was sort of keeping me in this place of like, there's always something that's going to be wrong. And it wasn't until very recently where I realized, like, I'm always searching for what's wrong. I'm always going to find it. What if I just simply decided that this was going to work out?

What if I decided that the efforts that I had done because I had made effort, I worked, I did the messaging. I had a really great offer. I could help my people. What if I just decided that I did enough? And I think that that shift absolutely helped me to go more into a place of alignment where I was able to receive it.

But I think that's, that was the key for me was I had, So many amazing people around me helping me. I had all of the support. I was willing to do the work and the effort, but there was something off and whether it was just that my time. Working with anxiety was [00:10:00] coming to an end and it was time for me to pivot or I burnt myself out because I was so focused on this having to work that I just sort of fizzled it either way I was so out of alignment and I was coming from a place of like fear and scarcity and gripping.

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah, and I think that's gonna resonate with a lot of people and I know my process was similar before I launched Spellbound, right? It was like doing all of the right things. It was very mechanical. I'm gonna post five days a week. I'm gonna go live once a week. I'm going to talk about these things to shift people's perspective on these things.

It felt very mechanical and there was no creativity. There was no flow. There was no excitement or fun in it because it was just this sort of rigid Formula that I was following and then same thing. It's got to work. It's got to work. It's got to work I've put so much effort in and now I've also invested in all of this support I've got to [00:11:00] see this return on investment happen and then there's that added pressure and not that getting support is a bad thing I think it's great, but it does add pressure to like Want to make things work.

And then it's really hard to step off that track. So I know it was like, Oh, well, I've done this now for six months. I've got to keep going. I can't give up now. And I think a lot of people listening, the high achiever, the overachiever, the stubborn person that's just going to like use all of their willpower to make something work.

They're not going to give up, right? They don't want to give up on it. And so it's, there is a point in the pivot. Where you need to lean into the courage to take a step in a different direction and let go of the thing that is no longer serving you. And I want to kind of tap into that because I know you said it dropped in as a sort of a ping.

How did you find the courage to pursue it? 

Katie Hunt: If I'm honest, I was very bratty about it because I got to, I pushed myself, [00:12:00] I tried, I put all of the effort in for so, so, so long. And I got to a place where I was just, I could not continue to go on that place. So it was like a rock bottom moment. And then I just felt like the audacity of the universe to drop in this idea that now you want me to do this thing, like, where were you with all of that?

And so for me, I was just sort of being bratty about it and being like, cool, well show me. And the universe was like, okay. And information dropped in or little pings or I would be showering or I'd be by the river and I had a whole offer just pop in and I would say, Cool, well, how would I sell that? And I would let it go.

And I know that you and I have talked about that and like that similar to your process as well. Like you allow the answers to come to you, which was sort of the first time that I I explored that in my business where I explored that in my personal life and how I was coaching clients with intuition, [00:13:00] but it was sort of the first time where I was co creating truly with what the business could look like without using my brain.

And so just trusting that, like, well, how would I get people into my world? And then an idea would pop in. And then you would, I would ask a couple of days later, well, what would that look like? And what if I could do it? For fun. And then I would sit down at my computer and something would just pour out of me.

But it was absolutely from a place. I still wanted things to work out, but it was from a place of more attachment where it was like, whatever, if it's not this, it's something better. And like, I'm not going to, I'm not going to kill myself doing that. I'm not going to, I'm not going to burn myself out trying to make this business work.

And ultimately it was like in the pursuit of trying to help other heal. Others heal. Why am I putting myself in a place where I'm not feeling anxiety? And yeah, so, um, it was a little bit of, it was definitely co creation, but it was absolutely from a place of like, Prove it. 

Kathryn Thompson: [00:14:00] Yeah. And I love the, the breadiness of it because I know for myself, it was probably 12 months of like pure grinding and I was at a rock bottom.

I was like, I am not doing this anymore. Like not doing it. And then boom, an idea dropped, Spellbound dropped in and I was like, Nope, I'm not just gonna, nope, gimme, I need more, tell the, you know, and it was the same thing. It was, okay, like, well, what does this look like? And how does, how am I launching this?

And all of the things. And I was asking the universe, my intuition, to give me the answers, rather than mentally trying to figure it out, how I had done, probably, for the last few years in business prior to that. And so I got kind of, Yeah. That bratty teenager of like, well, show me then. Right. Because I'm so tired and I'm not this efforting bit isn't working this forcing bit isn't working.

And so I want to kind of dive into like playing sort of with the universe, because I think [00:15:00] there's, there's a few things here. I think to highlight for people is that I think at some point we do get to a point of rock bottom. 

Katie Hunt: Yeah. 

Kathryn Thompson: However, that looks for you where you get to a point where you're like. I can't keep doing this.

I can't keep doing it this way.

It depends on you and your reality. But I also think there's a divine timing piece of it that comes through. And it sounds shitty because it's like, well, you're telling me the universe is putting me through this hell. I don't think the universe is putting you through this hell. I think you have to come to your own realization along this journey.

And so there is a bit of a timing piece, but now you're playing with. The universe. And I know prior when we chatted about the peace piece of it, like there would be times where you'd say like, I'm sending an email and like no one really responding or I get people like tons of open rate, but like people aren't [00:16:00] clicking through or they're not really engaging or they're not going through the trainings I've put together.

And I think this is an indication for a lot of people listening that when you talk about the difference of energy and efforting, because I think you and your gut in that sacred, you know, This feels harder than it probably should. And then you've now made this pivot where you're playing with the universe.

Like how would I launch it? How, how do I want people to find me and discover me? And you're seeing drastically different results from going from like maybe getting some signups to your free stuff to getting like 70 plus signups and more than 50 percent show up rate, which is like, Wild. Yeah. Is wild, right?

Because nobody watches live stuff. No one shows up to live stuff. They just watch replays. Or they don't watch the replays. Again stories we've told ourselves. Yeah. But now you're seeing these [00:17:00] like wild numbers that again don't align with what the industry says is standard. 

Katie Hunt: Totally, yeah. I know. And I think that what I was doing, right, all of that efforting and all of that work, it was like.

Well, it feels wrong, but how can it be wrong? Because the messaging is so great. This is what you do. Like I was creating YouTube videos and I would send you the scripts of my YouTube videos and doing the YouTube videos. Were the worst thing because I was so exhausted. It wasn't creative, but I was like, I have to hit these points.

And I think that we tie ourselves in knots because especially if you are a high achiever, you are somebody who's a go getter and you're not a quitter. You're like, Oh, well, I just need to tweak this. I just need to tweak this. And I just. We can get into this place where we're like, we just have to keep trying and keep going and maybe if I switch it up this way, but I think that this is maybe if this conversation is resonating with anyone listening, it's a moment for you to reflect and go like, what is where is this coming from, though?

Like, am I being really honest with [00:18:00] myself around? I need to keep going. Or am I just like so committed to this having to work because it is scary to let go and to step back and to say, what could it be if it's different? Because we have so many stories around, like it has, like, if it was that simple, everyone would do it.

Or you need to have these seven pillars in place in order to have a successful business. And I have friends who work in marketing and they're like, if you want a successful business, you have to have a social media. There is absolutely, you need a strategy. There is no ifs, ands, or buts. And I would hear that now and go, I'll show you.

Like, it's not like a, Oh, okay. Let me write that down and let me figure it out in my own way. It's like, no. I'm not letting that in because I trust myself. And so it's a very different energy. And I think only, you know, and you, and the rock bottom moment is not something that you can force. And I honestly think that sometimes we need to hit it so [00:19:00] that we, we just don't go back.

And one more thing I will say about this is I spent so many moments in this journey, shaking my fists at the sky and being like, why are you doing this to me? Like, why the hell is this happening? And now that I'm on the other side, and of course, there's more to, you know, there's more evolution to come.

But even already on this other side, I'm like, Oh, I get it now. And that's the most annoying part is that this journey is so valuable. This, this heartbreak that you're going through and this struggle is so valuable. If you are willing to look at it and really listen to what it's trying to tell you. 

Kathryn Thompson: A hundred percent.

And I am the, I so resonate, I was laughing internally as you were saying that probably on my face too, but like, I remember sitting in the tub and I'd be like, screw you, like screw you. Why, why are you doing this to me? Like, why, why, why? 

Katie Hunt: Yeah. [00:20:00] 

Kathryn Thompson: And then on the other side of it, it's like, Oh. Exactly. I see this.

I wasn't trusting myself and I have trained marketing, right? You decades of doing it. And I was still listening to other people. And I think that's the other thing is we want it to work so badly. We see how somebody else has made it work in their business. And so we are emulating it to some degree. And I'm in that season in my business right now where I've like, I built the thing it's working.

It's. Creating results. My refinement now is how can I refine it to be even more in alignment with who I am because I did it at that point. I was in alignment at that point when I launched it. But now in my own growth and evolution, I'm stepping even more into alignment and more into trust. And it comes back to that point of you saying, you know, you have to be on social media.

You've got to post all these times. That was my first inclination where I got really curious. We can call it bratty, we can call it like [00:21:00] questioning, you know, the authority telling me I need to do something, but really it's just curiosity. And that's where innovation lies is like, we've always done something and we're accepting the way something's been done, and we're just following it rather than going.

Is that true? Is there a different way? My soul says I don't want to be on social media 24 seven. So can I create a really thriving business without that? Or I don't want to launch with a big funnel or I don't want to run an evergreen program. Is there a different way to do this? And that's where the universe will start to deliver you insight into how you're really wired and how you're here to show up to do your work.

Katie Hunt: Yeah. I, I think that, that, that self trust, I think we somewhat go through that struggle in order to get to this place of self trust because I think it's okay. Like, You know, you're willing to do the work and the effort in order to [00:22:00] get your basic ducks in a row, right? Like, you know somewhat who you want to help and you know some messaging around things.

I think it's safe that you can trust yourself and explore and worst case scenario You just do it different. We should take out so much pressure. Like it's not a make or break. And I think that I was looking at everything like that. Like it is a make or break and it's what if it was just a fun experiment?

Like what if you, yeah, what if you were hearing all of this nonsense about how you have to run your business and you decided like, well, no, I'm gonna. What if I could do it without it, right? And trusting yourself that you don't need someone out outside of yourself to tell you or to give you permission that it's okay to try it a different way.

Like, give yourself that permission, because you can, you know, you know your stuff, like, you know more than you're giving yourself credit for, like, it's time to trust yourself. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah, yeah, and I think when we don't see evidence, I think, [00:23:00] again, that goes back to sort of like the trusting piece, if we don't have proof or evidence that it's being done this way, the way that like, right, if we haven't, we don't see anybody else doing it, and we're in this sort of vortex.

Of the, of the environment that we're in, which is why I often will tell people like, you know, go, go read a fantasy book, or like, go to an amusement park, or go sit in a different room than like, business coaching online, right? Go watch how a product business has grown or go listen to a product expert or whatever to like broaden your perspective of like what is being done.

Cause I know for myself, I was in that vortex. I was in the online coaching business vortex where it was like, this is how you build your business. You create a launch, a live launch. You build a massive list and a massive audience because only a very small percentage of those people are going to buy from you, which was counterintuitive to like my brick and mortar, where I had a very [00:24:00] small audience, but I had a really high rate of return customers.

And so, again, some of my questioning now is like, less is more. Quality over quantity. Could there be a model where In the online world where it's less about casting this wide net and mass appeal And more about like high touch intimate experiences for people that recur and come back to you over time.

But we don't, we don't see things modeled. And if we don't get curious about it, then we just stay, I think, stay on that track of like, well, this is how it's done. 

Katie Hunt: Totally. Yeah. And I think giving yourself the permission to be that trailblazer, right? Like one of the things was I was sitting there and I was thinking about all of these amazing people who are now on stage telling us how to run a business.

Yeah. And many of the pioneers in the digital online space, they tried it a different way and that's why they did so well. And now [00:25:00] they teach others and those others are now trickling down and teaching all of us. And I think like, well, what is the difference between that person standing on stage and you?

Like, why can't you? Yeah. Be a trailblazer in your own right. And why can't you find this revolutionary way that no one else is doing? Like why not you? And again, I think it comes down to this like underlying like fear of being able to trust yourself and you're like, well, it has to work and I have to follow this one way.

But there are so many different ways that people run businesses. And I also got to that place where I was like, why am I doing so much for free? Yeah. And I think that's where we get so burnt out, first of all, but so frustrated because you're like, but how much more can I give to people? When you hear messages like, uh, money is a by product of the value that you put out in the world.

And you're like, well, look at all this value. I put out videos every week. I send an email, I give free calls. You know, like I do so much. I do like free, like Instagram every single day. Like how much more value am I [00:26:00] supposed to pump into this machine? And all of it's doing is maybe just draining you. And I think that there's just, there has to be a different way that, that truly resonates and that there are so many businesses that.

They don't do things for free. So if you posting all of the time and you think that that's your only strategy or that you have to give value first, or you can't, you have to do everything for free so that you can get, I love the recommendation that you give to go visit other businesses, go look at other industries because only the coaching industry gives as much as it does away for free.

Yeah. Like a hundred percent. And there's other ways that you can do it. Maybe you don't ask for thousands of dollars up front, but maybe you can charge for workshops. Maybe you can charge for discovery calls and then there's a way to do it. But don't stop yourself from exploring what that could look like before you're Before you even give your mind to be of the chance to [00:27:00] be creative.

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. And I also think to bring this back into harmony and balance because no one, no industry gives like, you know, you don't walk into a hair salon and be like, Hey, can you do my hair for free? So I can see if I actually like you as a hairdresser or a doctor, like, by the way, I just want you to treat me for free so that I can see if you're a good doctor.

Like. We don't, my wine business, like you didn't walk in and be like, Hey, can I sample every ounce of wine you have? I mean, it was illegal to give samples, but you know, people were like, can I have samples before I buy? And they were buying taste on taste on, like they weren't even tasting right. They had to go on.

Us saying the quality and all of that, they had to trust in the product. So nobody else does it that way. And the coaching industry is the only industry that does such high production performance value driven stuff for free before people invest. And now to me, there's such an imbalance. I think a lot of people [00:28:00] expect this to be the case.

And so we do need trailblazers in place that are helping bring back into balance this idea that like, As even as consumers, like why should I expect this person to do an hour discovery call with me and walk me through all these things at whatever for free? Why, why should I expect that? Yeah. 

Katie Hunt: Yes. And that's what your podcast and everyone listening is going to be a trailblazer.

And that's what this podcast is so beautiful for is because it can inspire others to, to find their own path and to like, believe that they are also capable and worthy and That they're smart enough and good enough to create their own trail blaze or their own trail to blaze, you know, but yeah, I love that idea.

Like we're all working together to hopefully shift the paradigm into a place that's more sustainable and. Not such like a, a content monster or not such a hungry beast that we feel like we [00:29:00] can't even fill anymore. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah, and that again goes back to the, the structure, right? The, the, we, we can't create, this is why we need the trailblazers and the innovators and the people sort of breaking the mold and why I do the work I do because we can't create a new way of being from the same model that we're existing in.

And to me, social media is just. a reflection of capitalism. Yeah. All driven to capture our attention, to keep us glued to our phones, consumption, consumption, consumption, consumption, rather than us being our creators, right? Like you stepped away and said, okay, I'm going to let the universe guide me here.

Like, how would I do this? Okay. Let's play with the universe. That's a lot more spacious, a lot more creative, a lot more fun for you as a human. And if you're creative and you're having fun and you're fulfilled, that ripple effect to everything else in your life and the people that you come across, the barista at the coffee shop, you embodying that then [00:30:00] helps others see, wow, well, she's doing that.

Why not me? Right? I can carve my own path. I'm doing that. So why, right? Like, that's why I love having these conversations because I think it's sometimes hard to reflect in, you know, talking about like ditch the cookie cutter. It's like, Okay, well, what does that actually mean? And I think there is a, you know, just summarize for some people here is like, there is a rock bottom that's going to happen.

There's going to be a part where you're like. I ain't doing this anymore. There's deep trust in oneself, but there also is this invitation for you to, like, listen to that intuition. Because I want to dive into the creative fun ways that you are creating results. Because I think they're way different than how I do my business and a lot simpler.

Right? I think they're a lot simpler than how I even do mine. And so I want, I would love for you to share with our listeners how you've gone to, to [00:31:00] have 70 plus people and more sign up, how you're having people come in to work with you in the work that you do. In, in that simple way, 

Katie Hunt: yeah, I would say the very first tip that I have for everyone listening is to put down your like, stop typing all of the time, step back from all of like the nuts and bolts are all of like the, all of the work you're doing on your computer and like, Cut it in a half, like, you know, it's just like the amount of work that I was doing before it was in pursuit of getting clients.

And now I base how much effort I'm putting in on how many clients I'm seeing in the week, right? So it's like when I was doing this pivot. I only was willing to give so much time to that nuts and bolts, that desk work. And I was going, I was saying to myself, like, this is going to be really simple and easy because [00:32:00] I don't want to create all of this work up front.

I don't want to be spending so much time in front of my computer or creating free stuff. So part of my strategy is how I'm going to keep it really simple is I'm going to go on to a. A platform that people are already looking for solutions. So in my case, it was Eventbrite and I'm going to host a live workshop every month, maybe we'll see, but I'm going to host a live workshop because I can show up live and talk to people.

I don't need fancy equipment. I don't need a hosting site. I don't need to record it. It's easier for me to do it in person from that workshop. People are on this workshop and it's just me telling my story. There's no slides. There's no sales pitch. It's not fancy at all. I just sat down one day and I wrote down my story of how I called in my ideal partner.

And I didn't have to use a dating app and I didn't have to settle. And I did this [00:33:00] because I was thinking about My clients and what it is that they truly need to hear and what it is that I, I would have needed to hear in that moment. And it just came to me and I trusted it even though it wasn't what everyone else was doing.

And then at the end of that workshop, I invite people to fill out a free assessment. They do because people are already invested in wanting to hear what you have to say because you've connected with them in a really pure and beautiful way. So people are called to fill out an assessment and on the assessment, I invite them to work with me and they do.

And I don't have a fancy course. I'm just working with people on the fly and I'm creating it as I go. And over time, I'm going to build it out a little bit. I might create a digital version of it. I might invite some guest speakers to come in and support women in different ways, but I am keeping things so simple.

I have one offer, [00:34:00] I have one workshop, and I have one call to action. And That's it. Sometimes I post on social media. Very rarely. I just don't even promote my workshop, really. Eventbrite is an amazing tool and people seem to find it. Sometimes I invite people. Like, it's a very simple and easy and effortless thing.

Not effortless, but it's easier than what I was doing before. It's simpler. Yeah, 

Kathryn Thompson: yeah, and such a simple, like a simple pathway. And I love the, the pureness of it. Right. And I think, again, I think we overlook that. And I'm curious to know, I know I've had, this is something I've needed to untangle within myself that often we equate value with.

What we're giving, like I'm selling a course curriculum or a program, and there has to be all this stuff in there because that's the value, the thing I'm giving the deliverable [00:35:00] copywriting, right? I have to write copy. I got to write these emails and landing page for my clients because that's what they're paying for.

And I've had to untangle that within myself because I know my business is shifting more to that insight, more to my perspective. Showing up more spontaneous rather than like, here's this tangible thing that you're getting. And that's the value. And tied in with that was like, I've got to deliver presentations with a PowerPoint with something that they're going to learn and walk away with.

Cause that's the value. Yeah. Did you struggle at all with. With just showing up without slides and without deliverables and things like that. 

Katie Hunt: Not as much as I would have without my rock bottom. And so I think that's, this was part of the brattiness was I was like, I'm too tired to create PowerPoint slides.

I can't be bothered to like submit copy for Catherine to look over. Like I just, I wrote it down and I sent it to you to say like, is this, does this sort of make sense? [00:36:00] And you were like, Yes, this feels great. And I just sit and just talk face to face to people. And I love it. Like, I don't know if I'm like, I don't know if I have it in me anymore to create another PowerPoint presentation for the rest of my life.

Like, I just, I don't know. But I, I think that me, maybe this time last year may have struggled. To show up in such a way, because I would have thought like, well, I don't have all this, I don't, I don't look as professional or I would have tell myself all of these stories, but like, I'm using Dropbox right now to host tools for my clients because why am I don't need a fancy like course hosting software right now, I'm keeping it very simple and people.

Still love the work that I'm doing with them. People still are getting results, even though I don't have a fancy branded Kajabi website that can host the program and can lead people down this gorgeous. I love creating stuff like that, [00:37:00] but I just don't have the energy in me right now. So that I think is.

A blessing because it, and I think that's the, that's the blessing in the rock bottom is that you only have so much energy left. And so from that place, you're able to just keep it really simple and bare bones and find the process that works for you, because the way that I'm doing it isn't going to resonate and work with maybe anyone else, but to give yourself the permission to truly do it in your own way and to do it simply.

And if the evidence is taking a little bit to show up. As long as you are enjoying it. Keep with it, give yourself like a reasonable timeline, but just like, if it's not right now, then it's, it's, it is coming. And that is one of the things, like I, I hosted several of these workshops and I was getting great feedback.

People were submitting the assessment and I was like, wow, like I'm having so many conversations, but the sales weren't dropping in quite [00:38:00] yet. And instead of letting, like, I wanted to spiral a little bit about that. And I came to Catherine and I was like, I need to change. I need to like, get better at sales or something.

And we were able to just tweak like a couple of things. That were just put me more into a place of alignment and then it became more simple. But what the beauty was, is in all of those conversations that I had without the sales, I could fumble around, I could figure out like what was the purpose of these calls, how can I help these people, what do they really need from me, and who were the people that I really want to be talking to.

So even if you're not getting the results that you want right away from your pivot or you following your gut. Keep with it and know that there is value to it and that the results that you want are inevitable, like they will come. And I think that's a mindset shift. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. And I also think the, again, we go back to sort of the mechanical component of like marketing and sales.

Like I've got to do this and then [00:39:00] I've got to say this and I've got to say this. But if you actually think about dating, let's just use that as an analogy. Like, can you imagine if you went on a date with somebody and, and, and you felt like they were following a script to have a conversation with you?

You would feel so disconnected. You would feel so disconnected with, um, them in the conversation because it would feel very scripted and kind of like disingenuine and sales to me is the same thing. It's just conversations. 

Katie Hunt: And it's 

Kathryn Thompson: like, how do you have a conversation with your best friend? Bring that same energy in.

So the conversations you're having with sales, sure, you want to guide them to the offer and lead into a sale, but, but the more you can relate with the human sitting in front of you, which is why for me, it's so unpredictable to try to predict how to navigate every call because every human sitting in front of me is so nuanced.

And so when I sit there in front of somebody on a sales call, I'm drawing on what they're, I'm listening to what they're telling [00:40:00] me. And then I'm using all of the experience and wisdom that I have to then meet them where they are. And so you can't cookie cutter that because everybody's different. And I think that was probably one of my biggest realizations.

Because I always hated scripts and everybody that taught me was like, you need to follow a sales call script and my biggest realization was when I sold in the wine store. My biggest aha was somebody had said to me, you're a great salesperson. And I remember thinking, Oh, gross. Like, I don't want to be a good salesperson.

So I asked him why, though, I got curious. I said, why? And he's like, because you just talk so passionately with us about the wine and travel and food and. That's when it dawned on me in my online business. I was like, I am not having the same types of conversations with the human that's booked a sales call with me in the same way as I did with the wine store people.

I just need to have a conversation. And when I was able to sort of just release that, [00:41:00] that's when I became a far less attached to the outcome. I'm trying to get them to someplace, which then wrecks havoc in your brain. And I just started to. Just literally go in and go, I have no idea what, what's going to happen in front of me today, but I, I'm going to trust that I'm going to know how to navigate it.

Katie Hunt: Yeah. I think that is incredible because it's, it is so true. Like if you are rigid or if you're so afraid of making the sale that is going to come through. And I think to a lot of people listening to this are probably heart centered folks who are in heart centered businesses and people, those people who are on the phone with you, they're looking for love.

They're looking for a solution. Yeah. But they're, they don't want to be sold at like, no, they want to have a conversation with you. And one of the things that I think makes for a really great experience is like somebody convincing themselves to want to work with you because it was just so easy and effortless.

And they don't even realize that they're being sold to cause you're not intending to necessarily convert them. You're here [00:42:00] to have a conversation with them and to see them. And I think that it's just, it's a very different, very different energy that we're bringing into it. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. And, and you said something really key there of like having them come to their own conclusion about whether they want to work with you or not is huge because that relationship, this, it doesn't, the relationship doesn't end with the sale they, they buy from you.

And then you have that relationship with them for 12 weeks, three months, six months, whatever it is. And you don't want to just look at it as like, I'm getting that sale there today. A. Am I going to be in alignment to work with this human? And I only truly believe that if they don't come to their own conclusion and if we're using manipulative tactics and whatnot to get them to buy, there's always a power imbalance because they're buying from this place of.

FOMO, fear, scarcity, there's always going to be that like this person can help me rather than two people coming together to co create, [00:43:00] which is the environments that I want to be in both as a consumer and buying, but also as a, as a guide, it doesn't end with the sale. And it, and it doesn't even end with the six month agreement being done.

Like looking at your business as an ecosystem, like bringing clients into your world that then could potentially stay on and work with you for a long period of time where they go off and fly for a while and then they come back later on in their journey or whatever. Like that's the system you want to create, but we're so hung up on getting that initial sale, which I get.

And I understand the pressure of that, but we're not thinking of this as like. It's similar to dating, right? It's like, I'm going to go on this date with this guy. And then I'm going to go on a second date and a third date and a 10th date. And now I'm in a relationship. Well, am I gonna marry this per like, so you date for four years and you don't get married, like, right?

There's all these things that come into play, like, you gotta, like, is this a person I actually want to spend time with? And probably the most time in relationship, like, that's the person you spend the most time with is, like, You want to be [00:44:00] really clear about that human that you're spending time with.

Katie Hunt: Absolutely. Yeah. And I think like, we also need to be vetting on the other side that dating is the perfect type. I was going to say the same thing. Like it's, you are also interviewing this person. Do you want them in your world? Are you going to be happy to show up and serve them in the way that they really truly be are deserving of, or are you just looking to make the sale?

Because maybe not making the sale in that environment is probably a blessing as well, because maybe they're not the right fit for you, or you need to value your own time and your own containers as well. And that is a very powerful message to send out to yourself and also to the universe, which is putting you into a place of more alignment.

And I feel like a lot of the time when I have been stuck in like, I got to make the sales, I got to make the sales, you find yourself attracting people. Who have all sorts of reasons why they don't want to work with you. Or there's all sorts of reasons why internally, you know, [00:45:00] I don't know if they're right for me.

I don't know if I can help them the way that they need to be helped, but in your mind, you're like, but I need the sale. And so then you're now in this, like pushing energy again. And then that's why sales can just start to feel so gross. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah, and the back end of that, if you're in a relationship with a client that's misaligned, the downfall of that to me is For both people, not just for the person that is selling in the guide and the mentor, but one, you can start to lose your own confidence in the work that you do.

It can be all of a sudden now you're spending so much time and effort in experience with that person. There's lots of effort in there to like help them on their journey, but then they're likely not having a great experience either. And so oftentimes in sales calls, I say, I spend way more time listening And so much time not talking.

So when I hired somebody to support me with my sales calls, I [00:46:00] remember thinking, I don't even know how to train you because if you actually watch my sales calls. I don't talk, really. I do, but I, like, but the other person's talking a hell of a lot more than I am. And sometimes I'll just sit there and hold the space and not really say much.

And, but I'm also listening and picking up, my intuition's picking up, like, Is this somebody that I can actually support? What are they saying? How are they saying it? What's their mindset? What's their frame of perspective? Because I'm this optimist. I'm this person that's looking at what's working. Let's make more of that work.

Right? And so if they're, if people are kind of stuck in the victim, it's really hard for me to work with that type of human because I just don't exist there. Like, yes, I've been a victim in my own life and I've blamed, and all the things, but I'm, I'm not there anymore. And so it's hard for me. And it doesn't mean that those people are bad people.

It's just, They're not my people, right? There's somebody else on the planet that can [00:47:00] serve them better than I can. Um, and so I think that's really important to like, play the listening game of like, what am I, what am I looking for in this person? Like you said, it's a dual interview. It's a dual interview.

Katie Hunt: Mm hmm. And it's generous also to set someone free, who's maybe not the right fit for you, because if it's not that person, then it's an even better fit. Or if you're not that person's person, then set them free to go find their person, free up their budget so that they can truly find the help that they really desire.

And again, that's a generous, powerful stance to take within your own life. And that will help you to stay in a place of integrity with your own self and with. And to move you into a place of alignment. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. And again, it goes back to sort of like the dating analogy, right? It's like, you know, how many of us have stayed in relationships way longer than we should have, quote unquote, because one, we didn't maybe want to hurt someone's feelings or we really wanted love.

Um, so we were trying to fit ourselves into the relationship to make it work, even though [00:48:00] there was quote unquote, red flags for a while. Yeah, you know, I'm sure lots of us listening to this and can can attest to that, like stayed in that relationship probably three years longer than I should have. Yeah, right.

But it didn't serve either per person, right? It's like, Either person didn't get to go off and and be able to call in they spent that time and I don't want to say anything's a waste of time because that's I think there was lessons within that. But again, it comes back to dating. But like you said, a very powerful thing to even just look at your life.

Your relationships, your business, your work, like where are you putting in effort and time where it's not an alignment or your gut's like, that's not the right person, the right fit, the right offer, but I'm doing it for X, Y, and Z. 

Katie Hunt: Yeah. And you're like, I have to, and it's this underlying story and it's really sneaky.

And it's like, well, if I spend more time on the phone with this person, then they'll buy because [00:49:00] then I need a sale or, um, I'm doing this so that I can get. And I think. I think that that's a very easy thing to get into, and it's this slippery little thing that we may not even notice right away, but it's like, if you are able to shift into, how can I actually just trust that I am of service to this human sitting in front of me right now?

And if they buy from me, great, it's meant to be, and if not, then great, but at least they're walking away. With what it is that they truly need and I'm going to receive something as well. Instead of getting into that, that really, that big forcing and, and all of those things. Cause I, I really think we forget and we hear that like, Oh, you need to be of service to people.

And you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I am. They just need to buy from me or yeah, yeah, yeah. I am. I look at all this stuff that I'm creating, but we're not really. That's not our first intention. Our first intention is to get, 

Kathryn Thompson: [00:50:00] yeah, 

Katie Hunt: it's a very, I'm doing this to 

Kathryn Thompson: get, yes, aid. I'm doing this to make money. I'm doing this to build the business.

So I have freedom to live the life I want. Right. And one of the questions I've pondered lately is how am I being of greatest service to the collective and whole, like, how am I being of greatest service without trying to monetize it or make money? But like, what is that? And that's a really, how Powerful question because it will start to highlight some of the slippery slope of where am I just doing something to get something in return?

Yeah, 

Katie Hunt: that is, that is such a, it's the 30, 000 foot view almost, right? And it's like, that's your why. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yes. At the end of the day. 

Katie Hunt: And are you, are you in pursuit of that or are you only in pursuit of that if someone's paying you or if they have already proved to you that. They're going to, you know, be someone who's going to sign up for a call.

It's like, are we putting out the content from that place of, this is truly [00:51:00] a selfless act that I am putting out into the world because of this greater vision that I have, this greater purpose that I have. I don't know if we can honestly say that that's always where our intentions are coming from.

Kathryn Thompson: Totally, and it's, and it can be hard, it can be a hard question to answer too, like I know I've struggled with it because I, because it always gets tied back into work, and oftentimes, how am I being of greatest service to the collective, to me, isn't just about work and making money. But yet we attach our purpose with business and work, like our career or whatever.

What's my purpose on the planet? Oh, it's to be a doctor. No, right? They're like, sure. Yes. That's what you do for work. But oftentimes our purpose. There's something greater there and it's often simple but we're then we're trying to make it sound more important, sound more valuable, right? We start to package it.

It doesn't have to be something you monetize either, like how are you [00:52:00] being the greatest service to the collective? The first thing that came in for me because I've asked this question a few times and for years it was all work related. Well, what do I need to offer and how do I need to make money and how do I need to attract clients?

Now what's coming through is You being the best version of yourself is the greatest service to the collective. What does that look like in relationship, health? Where are you sacrificing yourself or things like in your health relationship, whatever, to appease to others? Right? So then it's like, then you get down to sort of the nitty gritty of it.

And it's like, wow, it's not just related to business and making money. And then what came out for me was where am I sacrificing financial security for my own creative expression? Yeah. 

Katie Hunt: No wonder you're going through big pivots. You're asking lots of big questions. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah, I know. Because it's like this, because it's like, [00:53:00] I've never, ever, ever, ever looked at it from that perspective.

Katie Hunt: Yeah. 

Kathryn Thompson: Where am I? doing something for financial stability rather than on honoring my own creativity. 

Katie Hunt: And why am I allowing myself to buy into the trap that I have that I, that it's required? 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. 

Katie Hunt: Yeah. Cause that's the thing, right? Your alignment, your fulfillment doesn't happen in a vacuum. If you're fulfilled in one area of your life, it's going to bleed into others.

And if you have one part of your life, that's just such a slag, it does affect. Everything else. And it is so hard, but if it's maybe you're in that place where you are so stuck in the struggle, it's like, maybe it's maybe, you know, asking that question for a broader perspective of like, what's the higher purpose and how can I embody that more so, and maybe the other areas of my life first to help you to get out of that place of feeling so stuck in the business aspect, because yeah, not everything needs to be [00:54:00] monetized.

Some things are just. A beautiful gift of human existence without putting capitalism on top of it. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. Yeah. And the whole idea of like not having to monetize every idea that comes through and like make it a business but also then like how much of your identity is wrapped up in Being an entrepreneur and making money and, and all of that, which, yes, we need money to, to live.

We've have mortgages and like, I'm not saying that like, we just go off onto an island and, you know, paint for whatever and just like, we do need money. We do need it, but I think laying in that realm of, well, what is, what could I do and what do I want to do? And how do I want my life to be if I could literally do that?

Do any like what's my wish and oftentimes the wish is the thing, but then we start to put all of our conditioning on it. [00:55:00] Right? Well, like, I can't do that because I have to make money or I can't live this way because I have to make money or how can I live this way and make money because my big why and I've said this probably my entire life is or at least my adult life is like life is meant to be lived like life is meant to be lived.

And I feel like. At least in the Western world, many people are not alive in their life. And I think there's many reasons for it. Relationships, jobs, people don't like yadda yadda, all the things. But I think for me, it's I have to embody that as well. Like I have to embody it and live it. What does being alive look like for me?

Katie Hunt: Yeah. And then not following it up with, well, how can I make money? Yeah. Like you just said, right? It's like that. I think we don't, then we don't allow ourselves to go past that [00:56:00] point because we're trying to figure it out. And we'd hop into our brain again. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. Cause how many of us have sacrificed health relationship for business, for a career?

Katie Hunt: Yeah. 

Kathryn Thompson: That's been my sort of story, right? Is like only my brick and mortar, like, you know, not eating, living off of coffee for four years in that place, because like, that's what you had to do to be successful. But like your health is one of your greatest assets, so it's like, and then time being another huge asset, time with family and friends and memories and relationships.

And if you're spending all your time living on an app, or all your time working, I feel like we're missing a point of life and that feels like is my bigger message is like we're here to live life like in the present now. Well, 

Katie Hunt: and you can do that and still be able to live as a human being, you know, like I, when I worked in corporate, I was so curious [00:57:00] always to find out how people were able to work there because in my mind, I was same thing.

Life is meant to be lived. I, I can't imagine doing this for 27 more years, spending all of my time in this office, you know, like it's just, I couldn't understand, I couldn't wrap my head around it. And I would just talk to people and they would say like, Oh, I would love to teach yoga, but I also need to, like, I have kids and this way, at least I can take them to Paris every summer or whatever.

And I would just hear and listen to that and go like, I don't know if I can ever get to that place where I am like, well, I would love to have this. beautiful life, but I'm able to let that vision go in pursuit of Being responsible and having nice things over here. And I'm, I was on the mission to figure out, well, how can you have both?

How can you create consistency? How can you create financial prosperity and live your life? 

Kathryn Thompson: Yes. 

Katie Hunt: And I think truly like, that's what we're all here to do as [00:58:00] entrepreneurs, but yet we still tie ourselves into the old corporate. Lifestyle of like, well, I'm going to be at my desk from 9 a. m. To five and I'm going to put in the hours and I'm going to put in the effort.

And have we really stopped to think like, is this me living my life? Like, is this business? worth the pursuit of, of how I'm getting there. Like, am I enjoying this journey? Is this really worth it? Or if, am I just, am I just working my ass to the bone for like actually kind of a worse deal because I don't have health benefits.

I may be not making as much as I wanted to make. My boss can be a real jerk sometimes, you know, it's like 

Kathryn Thompson: a lot of pressure on me. It is super critical. 

Katie Hunt: Yeah. 

Kathryn Thompson: You're not doing it out. 

Katie Hunt: Please her. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. She's hard to keep up with. And it's so true. Like it is so true. Right. It is like, and there's this acceptance piece that happens.

I think it's like, well, this is the way that it is. Yeah. This is the [00:59:00] way that it is, which is why. I love to do the work of curiosity in my own self, right? It's like getting curious, well, is this the way that it is? Because it is a different trade off, right? The, I mean, the brick and mortar was, you know, 15, 16 hour days.

I was like, I literally just traded in a high paying corporate career. For a very low paying, at that time when we first got off the ground, a low paying, double corporate career. Like it was hours in time we were putting in. And I get it in the early stages of business sometimes, but I was completely sacrificing my health.

I was complete. And then, and then the relationships, right. That I had no time to like do the things I actually loved, which was spending time with family and friends because I didn't have the time. 

Katie Hunt: So yeah. Is it worth it? Yeah, it's, and I, I don't know if we ever really stopped to think like, what am I doing?

I think we're just so in it and we just keep going through the motions [01:00:00] because like, this is what's required. Because we are just such good workers and we are trained to put in the effort and we won't quit. Yeah. But I, I really I think that the value in all of these conversations is so much like, well, how, how can it be both?

How can I truly live my life and do it the other way? And the path there might be really uncomfortable, but that might be the price for it. Yeah. Like the journey and fumbling through that and getting to this place where you're able to shift into a place of alignment and build something simple for you and your language and your style and your energy might take a bit.

Yeah. But if you're willing to be brave enough to follow your own gut, it might be worth it. I think it would be. Totally. 

Kathryn Thompson: Totally. And like you said, the path there might feel uncomfortable and it will sitting in that they will, but it's also, I think really rewarding because you [01:01:00] are following that path.

And if it's, you're living the life you truly want to live, it will be fulfilling. 

Katie Hunt: Yeah. Because people make money doing all sorts of things. You know, I once was part of this business building program and they were saying that there was someone who makes multiple six figures being a hula hoop dancers for festivals.

She started, she posts, she created a website and now she works, she goes to festivals all over the world. And like, do people think that that was a real career for her? Probably not, but she found a way to make it work and she probably, you know, did it in alignment and she probably, you know, she probably had to work and create some ways in order to do that, but she was able to make it happen.

So why can't you, why can't you be a story like that too, right? Like people make money online, trying different sodas and giving reviews. Like it's just people make money doing all sorts of weird [01:02:00] passions. Why not you? 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. And I think that's where we get in the vortex, right? It's like, it's got a, I got a, I got to sell a course and I got to sell a programmer in that vortex.

And you're right. There's like this person doing hula hoops. There was a guy I came across, he, he was, um, a wooden puppet maker. And then he was teaching other people how to like make their own wooden puppets. And it's like, A very niche niche. Yes, it was from his own passion and his woodwork that he was just like, and he didn't go into his woodworking puppet making.

He, the puppets were used in performance and whatnot. He didn't go into this thinking like, oh, I'm going to start this woodworking puppet thing so that I can then sell courses on how to make woodworking puppet. Like, it just kind of this evolution. But like you said, people get paid to like, test beverages or I mean, yeah, there's, there's, yeah.

So many different opportunities out there. And I think when we get in that pigeonhole of like, this is how it needs to look, it's really hard, which is why I [01:03:00] think like expanding our worldview and stepping out of the box that we're in and and just exploring, you know, different genres, different industries, because, yeah, so much insight can come from it.

And then being able to like, connect, like, you know, like, take something from the hula hoop person and take something from the online business, like, just, 

Katie Hunt: yeah. Yeah, you create your own adventure. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And I think where I know my brain would be going if I was listening to this is like still like, okay, cool.

I'm going to sit down with my pen and my paper and I'm going to look at all these different things and I'm going to like make this happen. And I think before we take any action, we would have such a more, such a more fun time and such an easier time if we focused on our energy first. If we focused on like.

Coming back to that higher view of like, what is my actual purpose here and how [01:04:00] can I make sure that the rest of my life is aligning to it? And what are some things that bring me closer to that vision or make me feel like I'm living that vision? Starting off our days with that first, being that our first priority.

And then the ideas will pop in because you're feeling better. You're not down on this level being like, I need an idea. I need an idea. Yeah. It's like you need to focus first on like making you feel good and you feel okay so that you're able to receive your unique blueprint and also the energy required in order to follow through with it.

Because if you're just grinding things out all the time, it can be tough to get out of that. But like you have to just create the space in order to receive something different because it may not be necessarily. It may not, the information, the next step may not arrive at the most convenient time, but you can help it along by focusing on your energy first.

Kathryn Thompson: A hundred percent. And I, I really want to kind of end on that because I think [01:05:00] it's so, so important. This is less about doing like, what do I need to do to like, try to figure out what the next step is and what the next idea is and what it looks like. It's not about figuring it out. It's not about doing, but also when we're in that state of grind and hard work and efforting and like, Nobody wants to exist there.

Like anyone listening to this will not be like, yeah, man, I love struggling. I love being in the struggle. Love working super hard. Like nobody wants to exist there. And so why would that even be sustainable in the first place? It's not going to be. Yeah. Of course, you're going to reach a break. Like that's why we reach those breaking points because our body eventually and our system goes nada.

Like we no more doesn't work and it could be a physical body breakdown like manifesting that way where it's like, I'm so burnt out. I can't actually do it. Right. But so it's like, we have to live in the energy has to feel good [01:06:00] for us to want to maintain it. This like, you know, no pain, no gain. is such an old paradigm message.

Yeah. Such a, and, and the reason why someone might say, well, like, what about going to the gym? I hate going to the gym. Right. Well, you're, but you feel good when you go, you feel good when you move your body. Nobody can sit here and say, man, I really love like when my joints hurt. Freaking love it when my joints hurt.

No, no one's saying that. So you're doing it because you want to feel good in your body. That's why we do those 

Katie Hunt: things. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. 

Katie Hunt: That is so true. Yeah. And it's a different, and if it's really painful, like switch it up, lower your weight, like go less time, the discomfort. But I think that's, that is a really good comparison because it's like, it should feel similar.

Like you're going to maybe go through some discomfort and you're going to maybe have to do something that you don't really feel like doing all the time, but you're never going to [01:07:00] regret going to the gym. You're not going to ever regret following your gut. And that's what I share with my students as well with like intuition is like, if you follow your own path, if you follow your gut, In those dark nights when you are all alone and you're wondering if you made the right decision or messed up your entire life, at least you can say, I followed what I thought was right.

I followed what I felt was right. And that is something to be proud of. And it's the same sort of situation if you're gonna put in the effort to go to the gym, you want the payoff. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. And it's gonna feel good to go. 

Katie Hunt: Yeah. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. I love it. This has been such a, an amazing conversation and I know, yeah, so many of our listeners are going to get so much out of this.

Is there anything that you want to say as we kind of wrap up? Any final thoughts? 

Katie Hunt: I just want to say to everyone listening that like, if you resonated with the idea that it's a struggle right now and that you are doing so much and you're frustrated and [01:08:00] you're starting to think that. Yeah. It's something about you that you're not good enough.

I want you to know that I absolutely can relate to that feeling. There is nothing wrong with you, and I want you to know that I understand how you feel to a, to a certain extent, to the extent that I can. You are not alone, like you are not the only person who's gone through this. And as someone who's now on the other side of it, what I can tell you is that this too shall pass and that.

that I hope that this conversation has inspired you to maybe take your foot off the gas just a little to go out into nature for a while to give yourself a break so that you can create some space for maybe the next step. Like I took off a full Month, two months off of work. I went in the summer, I gave up on my business.

I didn't think I'd return to it. And in that time I created space. I focused on my relationships. [01:09:00] I focused on doing things that just made me happy. And. focusing on myself created some space for me to receive my next steps. So what I will say is that I hope that this conversation hasn't made you feel like irritated that it hasn't happened for you yet, but that this is a sign that it is going to happen for you and that it's your opportunity to take a couple steps back and focus on you so that you can build your own version of your own beautiful, simple, elegant business.

Kathryn Thompson: Amazing. Amazing. And I love it. And if there's anybody out there who's listening, who is looking for love, where can somebody find you? 

Katie Hunt: Okay. Well, I am on Instagram. Um, you can absolutely reach me over there. It's at Katie hunt co, and we can put those links below. And for anyone who is interested in, um, sending me an email or filling out my attractor factor assessment so that you can figure out how.

What you can shift in order to [01:10:00] attract in your ideal partner over the next three to six months. I will also link that maybe below. Um, and if you just want to chat, share your thoughts about your journey or what you think about this podcast, I would absolutely love to connect with you guys because I remember when I was going through this, that I felt like I was the only one, or that I was, I just felt so isolated and I want you all to know that you are not alone.

So reach out to me. I'm happy to chat anytime. And thank you so much, Catherine, for having me. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yes. It's been such a pleasure as always. And yeah, I cannot wait to, to share this with everybody because we've, we've covered some pretty amazing things. So 

Katie Hunt: thank 

Kathryn Thompson: you. 

Katie Hunt: Thank you. Have a good day, everyone. 

INTRO: Thanks for listening.

We'll see you right back here. Next time. You can also find us on social media at creatively owned creativelyowned. com until next time, keep showing up as your authentic [01:11:00] self.