How Attachment Trauma is Impacting How You Show Up in Your Business with Dalila Jusic-LaBerge

INTRO: [00:00:00] After generating over a million dollars in sales and selling one of her businesses with a single email, your host Kathryn Thompson takes an unconventional approach to marketing and sales. So if you're ready to tap into a more powerful way to be seen, heard, and a sought after entrepreneur in your industry, without having to spend endless hours marketing your business and chasing clients, you're in the right place.

Be The Sought After Entrepreneur Podcast is here to help you ditch the cookie cutter, one size fits all approach to marketing and use your unique energy to effortlessly attract the most aligned clients. When you do this, you can spend less time marketing your business and more time doing your soul work and enjoying the richness of your life.

Welcome to Be The Sought After Entrepreneur Podcast. And here's your host, Kathryn 

Kathryn Thompson: Thompson. Hey, hey, I am super stoked to have our guest on here today. I'm just going to [00:01:00] turn it over to you so you can introduce who you are and what you do. 

Dalila Jusic-LaBerge: Hey, I'm Darila Jusic LaBerge and I'm a relationship coach and therapist for high achieving women.

Obviously you should ask me what that means later. That's actually an important part of it. Uh, I help them, uh, transition from this anxious and over functioning love seeker to what I call secure love creator, so they can feel empowered about their love life, just like they know what they need to do when it comes to their work, business, or job, or education.

They feel so, powerful there and they know, you know, there is a path of what they need to do. And when it comes to love life, it's just like they have to depend on universe or whatever word you want to use, you know, destiny, luck, God, and they feel quite at loss very often. And for generations we go like that.

And I want to [00:02:00] let them know that, uh, finding love today, there is a specific process. And especially if you're in these In one of these categories that I mentioned, over functioning, uh, high achieving, there is a specifically tailored approach for you that will lead you to that place where you want to be with a man that's equally dedicated to this relationship.

Kathryn Thompson: Amazing. And I know our guests are probably going to be thinking, This is a business podcast. And so what does this have to do with business? And the reason why I asked you to be on the show, because I don't think we talk a lot about trauma, trauma response, and the way in which we're showing up. in our businesses and how that is a direct parallel often to how we show up in relationships.

And those of people that have been following me for a while, they [00:03:00] know I use a lot of dating analogies when I talk about marketing and business. And so I asked you to be on the show because I really definitely want to talk about what these attachment styles are specifically for high achievers and whatnot and the over functioning because Well, you might have a man in your life already, or feel secure in the relationship you have, you're naturally going to start to see, uh, through this podcast here, how you might be showing up in business and maybe even in that relationship in a way, um, where you're having that sort of like anxious attachment or there's some type of trauma response driving, um, yeah, how you're showing up the behavior, even how you're marketing, right?

So I'm actually Transcribed Yeah. Do you want to unpack? 

Dalila Jusic-LaBerge: Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. I just want to kind of tell you a little bit like my sad story. I mean, this is like my sad, sad story. I joke with words, so don't take me too seriously. Uh, what I'm [00:04:00] observing, what I tell my clients and what I guide them, you know, how to show up.

Uh, in relationships, it's kind of like what I'm going through in my business. It's, it goes back to that relationship itself and that security and that empowerment, you know, so that's why we can talk about that. And besides, I'm, I'm a therapist in general. I can actually talk about that. I, I'm trauma trained, you know, after graduation and working with that for decades.

So I can talk about that attachment trauma that may lead us to have all these limiting beliefs that reflect themselves mostly in relationships, but then in new situations, you know, when you just get a new job, you know, there is a different way you behave than when you're there for three years. Same with business.

Oh, that will bring up so much, so many triggers to these old wounds that we [00:05:00] just kind of shoved down when we are young, especially, and we are going to school and we are Just, you know, showing bravado and putting up so much work when society wants us to just like be these hustlers and put, put so much work into what we are doing.

So we kind of cover up for those limiting beliefs and how we feel about ourselves. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. 

Dalila Jusic-LaBerge: It's important to address this. 

Kathryn Thompson: Totally. And it's so interesting because it is true. I often will say that being an entrepreneur and being in business is, you know, Personal development on steroids sometimes because all of these traumas and all of these triggers and all the things that we, like you said, buried, start to come up.

We show up online, we're putting ourselves out there, we're getting more visible, people are commenting, maybe they don't like what we're doing, and all of a sudden this Fear of rejection, this fear of being perfect. All these things start to appear. And as you mentioned, you are a therapist, so you've got [00:06:00] loads of training and being able to not like to talk about this in a very educated way.

And so that's the other big reason why I wanted to have you on the show because I knew, knew your work and, and knew that uh, it's coming from a very deep professional place. And so, uh, will you share with our listeners, because you talk about these limiting beliefs, you're talking about some of these triggers.

What does that actually look like in relationship? with self, with business, with our 

Dalila Jusic-LaBerge: partners. Well, it's really, uh, like, I'll tell you about the beliefs that are kind of, essence of how we show, you know, that lead us to showing up. You talked about authenticity today in your podcast, but, uh, you know, and I was thinking authenticity isn't like you're fake.

It's like about, uh, you know, lack of, uh, Lack of strength, or not strength, but, uh, you're basically fearful to show up who you are. And, but, you know, limiting beliefs come from these early, early [00:07:00] experiences that you may not even remember. You know, I have to work, you know, hard for everything. That's one of mine.

Like, I'm like praying to God, you know, to get this thing, to get this guy or to whatever in my life. And like, it's not happening, it's not happening, and I'm like, okay, you know, okay, I surrender, it's not gonna happen, you know, and then, like, it happens, like, okay, I have to, like, strive for everything. So that, that kind of belief comes from somewhere, that, you know, now you're gonna have people who are into manifestation that can add their sense neurologically even may make some sense when you talk about uh, how we create this, uh, like a place where we don't allow, you know, because of so much anxiety.

So this all reflects in the relationship or how you show up in [00:08:00] a business. So you come with this place, like instead of being present in the moment with the person, you come like, oh, will he like me? So it becomes about you, but in a way it turns out to be this kind of resentful place. Like, oh, I do all these things for you and I give up myself, but then, you know, I don't get to anything.

So it's like, huh, I never asked you to give up. This is just one example. So what else happens is women are so, um, like, Just, just because of that, like, they kind of come from that place, they start dating. Am I going to be liked? You know, it kind of goes back to me and am I showing up and am I, you know, the most beautiful I can be and the most, uh, uh, chatty and interesting?

How do I need to be? It's kind of like overthinking and you just can't be in your body. [00:09:00] that way and you will just miss, you know, it's kind of goes back to that trauma place, like when you're so hyper vigilant that you actually miss all the signs of danger. So, yeah, it's kind of like looking, you know, but then you miss you, you're not like, kind of able to actually see everything.

It's kind of like a horse having these, uh, Blind, side blind, blinders just to see these specific things in front. So the other ways in which this looks like is, uh, kind of over functioning. You know, you start a relationship and instead of allowing yourself to see all the green and red flags, you know, and kind of relish experience, you, you start, uh, kind of making this relationship work.

And then this brings resentment, as I said, Hey, I did this and that and that, and I followed this guru and that. [00:10:00] you know, therapist, but nothing is working. And, you know, that brings up resentment. Yeah. Go ahead. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. I was going to say, this is so spot on because, um, I hear this often in the, in the business space and the, and promoting, right.

I'm trying all of the things I'm doing all the things I'm putting myself out there. I'm putting all this energy and effort into it and I'm getting maybe nothing in return, so to speak. Right. And like you mentioned is like, well, It's, it is that surrender piece in a lot of ways, but it's also that, you know, the audience that you're communicating or connecting with, like, there also has to be that sort of lean back approach, because again, it's like, well, I didn't ask you to.

you know, go online first every single day and post 24 hours a day. Like, I'm not asking you to do that. And so I think, like you said, is that over functioning? I know one of the questions that people are going to have is, what is [00:11:00] hyper vigilant? 

Dalila Jusic-LaBerge: What is hyper vigilant? Very good. Because I can totally miss out.

It's kind of like being attuned to danger. Yeah, if you have trauma, it's a complete natural response. And I want people not to say, oh, you know, not to castigate, I'm using another word, not to beat themselves up and say, You know, what's wrong with me? I'm hypervigilant. No, it's a wonderful thing that you're hypervigilant, that served you at some point in your life, or whatever other kind of, should I say, limiting kind of thing.

It wasn't limiting back then, it helped you survive, but now you came to a place when you want to grow. Whether it's in a business or in a relationship, there is a need for new skills. So you have this skill. And that's a great thing. You can know, Oh, I can be hypervigilant. I'm good at that. Yeah. But now I'm going to learn to what you said, kind of surrender.

And it's actually almost like a [00:12:00] neurological concept. If you kind of think of, like, I go back to babies. I was never mother, but I love babies. And they're just so like, they can give you a lot of insight. Uh, If you've seen babies, like, uh, they have this, like, desire to be seen by you, you know? They are, like, seeking you with their eyes, and then when you kind of reflect, and they're happy, right?

Somebody sees me. So, uh, that's kind of, uh, and then we have, like, moment when baby just, like, drops. and sleep in your arms and you know, and that's that surrender. Neurologically, we need to learn how to, uh, relax, how to yield, we call it. Yeah. That kind of, I'm good enough, I'm safe, you know, and there will be times when you need to push boundaries, when you need to grasp, when you need to do other things, but there are times when you [00:13:00] can.

And it's you, you're good enough, whether it's a success in the business, uh, with this. you know, next person that you meet, you're going to be fine, whether it works out or not. Yeah. 

Kathryn Thompson: And the relaxing piece, I think is huge because I think a big part of, I know the people that come into my world is that creating that inner safety in their business.

There is a safety piece. And I'll often hear from people saying like, I don't know if I feel safe, being seen. I don't know if I feel safe attracting more people into my world. I don't know if I have the capacity to hold this big vision that I see for myself. Is that part of, is there a trauma response there when someone's terrified of maybe having 10, 15, 20, 30, 40 clients, because that's what all here, right?

Or the stardom, right? It's like, well, what [00:14:00] if I put this out there and something goes viral? Like, will I be able to handle it? And I know that it's that over processing a lot in the brain, but is there like a trauma response that's happening? 

Dalila Jusic-LaBerge: I mean, it's an absolute possibility. I mean, I kind of, I'm smiling and smirking because you're totally talking to me, you know, and I can totally relate to that.

It is kind of like, say if you are young, right, and you have so many responsibilities and you Kind of never feel the, you never get to enjoy because it's over your head, but you still do so much. Like if you're maybe the oldest child, if your parents were too busy and had to work so hard, you know, and there are people who come from poor families and they had to have that burden that's beyond your age, you know, beyond your age.

So you had to take care of your siblings. Maybe your parent was sick, you know, [00:15:00] maybe like I had to get all A's and like cook for my family. It was just kind of normal culture that I need to take these. responsibilities of myself, you know, and my brother was younger, I was supposed to watch him and all that stuff.

And you just don't feel like, oh, I'm doing all these wonderful things, but you are doing them. And then when you think, imagine now getting all these customers, do I really want, there's that fear. That's maybe unconscious, like, how wonderful it would be to have a lot of customer, can I handle it? Do I want to handle it?

You know, there is that young part that's like screaming from within, and you're like, but I want to succeed, but like, I don't know about that. Are you gonna put in this position that you can't handle it and you're gonna be embarrassed and you're gonna fail people and you're not big enough, you know, there's that trauma, you're not grown enough to do all these [00:16:00] things.

I have to climb to actually cook, you know, like eggs, like I would climb on a chair. you know, to cook breakfast. So I literally wasn't big enough. Yeah. So these are, you know, reasonable kind of fears. And, and that's why being present and being aware of these limiting beliefs to be present first for yourself.

And that's when you can actually be present for your partner in a relationship, as well as for your audience, your clients, when you can. kind of, I call it dual empathy. Not that my clients are not empathetic and don't feel when somebody else feels, but like holding that space and being able to see, oh, this guy is wonderful, but he's just doesn't have capacity for the kind of relationship I want.

That's an important Yeah. Ability to see, you know, or this [00:17:00] person, you know, needs the kind of help that I can offer, but they're just not ready, you know, for that. Maybe they need to do some trauma work with a therapist, then to go to coaching and who knows what. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah, I love that. And I'm also smirking because I am, you know, like that recovering high achiever as well.

And I've done a ton of work on myself to, to, to be in a place that I'm in now. But that was a big fear of mine as well. Like, do I, how many clients do I want to take on? And I don't really want that capacity or responsibility, right? And so there's this like, avoid it tendency, like I want it, but I also am going to avoid it.

I'm going to avoid the things I need to do to get to reach that level of success. So it's that like subconscious, like, uh, sabotaging that happens because you're like. I want it, but I, but I'm going to avoid what I need to do to make it happen. Or I just don't feel safe. [00:18:00] And I would always say I, I, I didn't feel safe in my body.

So that was the piece I had to cultivate the safety of my body to feel good and okay. And then the other thing that you just touched on, I think is so powerful is the being able to identify whether or not a client is the fit for you now. Um, or do they need to do some work? And this is a big part of the work that I do is like helping clients, I say qualify their clients because I think in coaching, we often will hear I keep attracting misaligned clients and I'm like, but they're telling you or showing you before they ever get into working with you, whether or not they're probably the right fit for you.

But I also know it took me time to really get clear, but I also had to heal a lot of the the trauma and whatnot in order to get really clear of like, these are the, the humans that I know I [00:19:00] resonate with a lot, but also that will thrive in my coaching, which I think is key. Yeah, 

Dalila Jusic-LaBerge: right. But, you know, that comes from that, uh, because, oh, whatever the tribe wants me and tells me to do, we have syllabus, right?

When you go to college, this is what I need to do. So it's like, okay, client needs me. So I need to help this client, you know? So, uh, it takes like obviously decades sometimes to get to that place of when we, especially women, start. claiming ourselves, in a way. And I love what you said about body, because it is like, you know, I, I'm also somatically trained therapist.

Uh, it actually stays in your body, that particular trauma. And we all know we are worthy. We all know we are reasonably, you know, attractive, intelligent, capable. Yeah. But it's stuck. you know, [00:20:00] in your body, that feeling, Oh, do I want this responsibility for another human being's life? That's scary. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. And also the, the stuckness, right?

Did somebody say something to us when we were three, four, five, 10, 13, about our body, about the way we looked, about the way we talked, the way we did our hair that You know, we, within ourselves, started to tell those stories that, like, we weren't pretty enough, we weren't smart enough, right? I, you know, one of my, I talk about this often, is like, one of my traumas was in, I don't want to say grade three or four, I had somebody tell me, a teacher, uh, tell me that if I ever wanted to go into writing or do anything with writing, like, I should not do it.

Cause I was not a good writer. Which is crazy because that's what I do for a living, but it took me no word of a lie until I did my master's degree at 30 and [00:21:00] to, and to have professors tell me how phenomenal I was at writing. And graduated the top of my class and that's what validated me at 30, 31, 32. I finally felt validated in that.

Wait a minute. I am a good writer, but I carried that for years and not even really realizing it. I think I just believed the teacher at the time that I wasn't a good writer. So I just trusted their authority and they knew what they were talking about. And they were my English teacher. And so I'm just going to believe it.

And. And you carry that for years. 

Dalila Jusic-LaBerge: Yeah, that is very special. The earlier the, the trauma or event, you know, and when I say trauma, people usually don't understand that, uh, trauma, yes, it is something that's, uh, life, uh, that endangers your life or your physical safety. Yes, it's wars, you know, rapes, and all these horrific events that happen.

But Uh, like attachment [00:22:00] trauma and attachment wounding doesn't need to be horrific. Your parents didn't necessarily have to abuse you in order to get attachment trauma. It's just that there's that inner feeling that you can't feel safe to be yourself. Or if you're a baby, you know, there is even physical trauma.

Uh, what's not dangerous to us, and we know, right, that that baby is safe because I'm in the next room and I will feed her in 20 minutes, but in 20 minutes, baby may think that she will die, you know? Yeah. And, you know, that's like trauma in a big sense, like we call it a big T trauma. Yeah. So, uh, you know, that's that kind of attunement that we need when I say attunement, I feel I need to clarify the word.

Yeah. It's kind of ability to understand, you know, feel something or somebody. So in this case, [00:23:00] yourself. Yeah. Like, uh. Talking about that feeding trauma, right? Like, about baby trauma. Yeah. I was born, uh, late 60s and they fanned me on schedule, right? Yeah. That means like, oh, you shouldn't allow your child to be hungry whenever she wants, right?

So you need to feed her on schedule. So for a baby, when you're fed, you, uh, you know, it's like, okay, I need to eat everything. And who knows when the next feeding will come? Not when I'm hungry, but somebody else, I don't know, in a baby's head, it could be 75 days, you know, in terms of time perception, right?

So, So now I can kind of feel that as a, you know, trauma trained therapist, and as you said, in my body, I can feel when I get, start getting hunger cues, there's this anger and like, it's like freak out mode, you know, or when I go [00:24:00] for a hike, I need to make sure I eat really well so that I don't feel that hunger, you know, like that I don't wind up, you know, yeah, from hunger.

So it's, you know, trauma, uh, example of. literally bodily trauma that affects our eating habits even as we You know, old and grown ups speak about these more subtle things, like, you know, I can't, uh, ask for anything when dad is, you know, when daddy comes from work and he's so tired, like, I need to be a good girl and get all good grades and make him happy.

Otherwise, my needs are too much for him. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah, and it's so interesting because and then and I love the way you sort of distinguish between like the different levels of trauma because I think sometimes we even are afraid to say trauma because we think of [00:25:00] the extreme trauma right that people experience and yet it could be something that happened in childhood that in your parents believed they were doing the best they could with what they had.

It's not like they're like I'm trying to starve my baby here, but this is what it is. I'm being told. Yeah, I need to do. Um, similar to me being told I was a bad writer in grade three or four. Like I just believed the teacher and I carried that. And when I think back, I probably never would have classified it as trauma because.

I just believed it. I think I was just like, okay, well, I guess I'll go into like math or business or something like that. And because I, I never thought that I was like an expressive and I was very expressive as a kid. And I think that at that age, I think it kind of just squashed. The, the expression in me.

Um, and I was always kind of expressive, but I, but I never believed it until I was in university. Yeah. [00:26:00] Masters at 32 and I'm being told and graduating at the top of my class and getting awards. And I'm like, how? I was shocked. And I remember getting the email saying I had graduated at the top of my class, refreshed my, I didn't tell anybody for, I a couple hours and I just kept refreshing my screen because I was waiting for the oops, we made a mistake.

The email wasn't supposed to go to you. That's what I'm waiting for. And it was, yeah, right. And so you talk about like trauma and you're, it's just stored in you like this can't be right. This is wrong. They're gonna tell, and they're gonna tell me I, yeah, I didn't, I didn't qualify, or I was, yeah, the wrong person picked, or whatever.

It 

Dalila Jusic-LaBerge: kind of also may make sense because there is that higher self that's there that is like, you know what, fuck these people. Yeah. We are the best in the class, you know, here we go. And you're like still, you know, with this other traumatized part. So there are [00:27:00] these both parts. And of course, then you feel angry.

You feel gaslighted by yourself. You know, you gaslight yourself, let's say, in relationships. Like I'm a professional woman who takes care of herself and wants to give my heart to somebody, you know. I want to give, I want to love, and then, oh, you're needy. No, I'm not, you know, you're not. So, and then we take this, oh, I'm needy, because you feel traumatized.

You're not needy. You don't need, you know, any handouts. You don't need anybody to come and, you know, yeah, you're here or, or allow you, you know, so, uh, In this case, we kind of gaslight ourselves from those people that gave us that, you know, like, my needs don't matter and it's too much, you know, to ask that.

But then a part of you is like, no, I really want this. This is like, we know ultimately that this is not, not, not true. And that's why there is this kind of struggle [00:28:00] almost, like, are you going to make this and allow yourself to step into that higher self? and work towards that and say, you know, okay, like I can understand myself and be self compassionate for thinking that I'm not good enough, but you know, I also deserve, I'm at least just as good as the rest of the world, you know, and everybody deserves love.

Everybody deserves recognition. Everybody deserves to be a writer if they want. 

Kathryn Thompson: Totally. And what's so interesting when you said that about gaslighting, cause I think I can even think of relationships. I definitely did that in, in my twenties, but also even in business sometimes, right? We can gaslight ourselves when we know what we want and we know where we want to go.

And then we talk ourselves out of it. Cause it's that thing of like, well, maybe I'm not good enough or who am I to want this. Who am I to go after this? All of that. I've, I've [00:29:00] heard that, um, often that I've said it to myself sometimes, like, who do I think I am to have that vision on my vision board? 

Dalila Jusic-LaBerge: And, uh, something came up as you were saying this for me, like when it's usually comes from, uh, this in group kind of, when you are in, in this group of people, whether it's in school, like a teacher, or, or other friends, but it all comes from that self limiting, you know, if I'm like, like, who am I, then I'm going to tell another person, who are you, you know, like, I'm not, like, who are, who do you think you are?

So when, when we experience this, we kind of need to, oh, what's up with her? Not, not to go in a sense and kind of, you know, shame people, but like just for ourselves and like, oh, okay, so this must have been her experience. This happened to me when I got divorced first time in my forties and my mom, oh, who's, there was this like, who's gonna want you now?

[00:30:00] Like I'm over 40. It kind of hit me, that kind of generational trauma that she things that a woman over 40, nobody wants her. That's like how she was like raised and like, and it hit me that that's her thing. You know, I kind of knew that, that that's hers. It's not mine. 

Kathryn Thompson: Totally. And I think, you know, um, that's that whole perspective of like, That, that doubt or that perspective, that projection that others can put on you that are, that aren't yours, but we take them on, right?

Like, I'm a bad writer. I just believed it. Yeah. It was her perspective of based on what I was writing in grade four, which probably wasn't a decent writer, but anybody that knows, like a craft, like writing the work that we do, self mastery, all of that. I mean, that's a lifetime. Like, it's practice. It takes effort and work to put into.

Become a good writer to become good at business to become good at [00:31:00] marketing and all these sorts of things and so it's yeah It's interesting that perspective of like yeah, who's gonna Who's going to want you at 40 or beyond 40 when you, when you've gotten divorced, right? Is that, and it's interesting as you were saying that, um, I, I watched the golden bachelor this year and that was like two things that these, you know, 70 year old people were saying, like, it's never too late for love.

You know, they're 70, they had lost their spouse. And I think they even said at one point, like, I didn't think I would ever be able to love again because I'm 70. And I'm like, do I go on a dating app? Do I go find love? So like, how do I do this? And obviously they went on reality TV, but it was that perspective of like, it's too late to find love again.

Yeah, exactly. 

Dalila Jusic-LaBerge: And if I kind of think about it, like the society. the whole system, like, you know, is kind of, enjoys that, uh, it thrives on, on us feeling just a little bit under, [00:32:00] you know, skilled. So, you know, you, you're displaceable. So it kind of, unfortunately, makes the system work, but we know, we know the science, we know, you know, how humans thrive.

But at least we can be aware about ourselves and our family, our friends, and kind of provide each other and be that force that will never say to somebody you don't know, you know, you're not good. You cannot do this. Nobody will want to, you know, to be aware, to kind of allow others, like to do them be themselves

Kathryn Thompson: Totally, totally. And I think that's the, the really interesting point because. You know, again, in the work that I do, when somebody comes to me, they'll often come with this massive vision and they'll say to me, do you think this is possible? And I'm like, yes. And then they'll say, do you think it's too crazy of an idea?

I'm like, no, I don't know how it's going [00:33:00] to turn out. But I'm just like, yeah, let's, let's put this out there because the ideas that usually drop or the, the things we want is like you said, is that higher self asking for the better love partner or asking for a partner that, you know, you deserve and not settling for something less because Of all of the reasons we've kind of talked about here today, right, of gaslighting and not maybe believing the limiting beliefs of what, what we're capable of or what we deserve.

And so oftentimes when we have that big vision in business that's being placed on our heart, it is the limiting beliefs and things that, that, you know, veer us off track or somebody else's perspective, but it's, it is destined for us, I believe. Yeah, 

Dalila Jusic-LaBerge: that's what I actually say, like, if, like, I know, like, I was almost, like, born with this yearning for love, you know, like, that was, like, like, when I was, like, since I have memory, I would fall in love with a little boy in preschool, you know, that is, like, [00:34:00] important to me.

I love it. There is a reason for that, so. This just became my mission, you know, like, and like some astrologer actually, a Vedic astrologer told me, Oh, love is not in your car, you know, you shouldn't go for it. Wow. Should go for scholarly pursuits, blah, blah, blah, become professor, learn languages. And I'm like, you know, and my friend said, you know what, whatever is your yearning, if you have such strong yearning, it is meant to be.

It's just that you need to. Go for it. You need to make that decision, that intent, and then figure out. I feel like, I mean, we can do or be anything. I mean, maybe I can be an astronaut at my age right now, but I can take birth next life. Yeah. Or whatever your belief is, but, uh, or maybe you can go privately if you have enough 

Kathryn Thompson: money, I guess you can fly.

Yeah. Be an astronaut. 

Dalila Jusic-LaBerge: [00:35:00] Yeah. So, uh, where was I? Astronaut, I don't know. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah, you were yearning for love. You were yearning, you had this yearning and, and somebody told you astrologer. And again, I think it is some figure of authority often will tell us or somebody that we deeply value their opinion that tell us that it's not possible.

And so your friend that was like. If you want this, you have to go for it, which I think is so beautiful. It's like to have friends and community that are like, yeah, go for the big dream. Yeah, 

Dalila Jusic-LaBerge: exactly. And the same is what I say to my audience, you know, if this is strong for you, no matter what age, no matter any other situation in your life, this is what you should go for.

My husband's grandma, she was married whenever she wanted. Her one husband died, you know, so she got married whenever she, at 70 something, you know, she would go [00:36:00] for dance, she looked cute, you know, so that's just kind of our limiting belief, like, oh, over such and such age, you know, and there is a purpose for that, like, also what they say to women that you should just sit and wait, you know, and then women are like, I waited and waited, you know, but nothing is happening for me.

Why is it not happening for me? And then you kind of just keep re traumatizing and more and more, you know, you keep like, kind of adding these limiting beliefs and, and kind of making them bigger. It's not happening for me. So something must be wrong with me. No, you just need to kind of do it right away.

You need to go for it. You need to know what you're doing 

Kathryn Thompson: and yeah, I love that you say that to go for it because I think there's also that perspective of like I say the art of surrender and the art of receiving right and having that full trust and faith that you're good enough and [00:37:00] what you're doing and all of that and that there's this safety that we cultivate but then there also is we do have to take action and I think a lot of manifestation messaging out there can be like just set the intention it'll miraculously happen and I'm like well no you still have to there still has to be intent with action and you still have to go after it and have that.

deep passion to go after it, but it's not this rigid, gripping, anxious feeling of like, Oh my gosh, is this going to work? What are they going to say if I say this? And if I show up this way, will someone hate me? It's getting out of that processing and the overthinking. and sinking back into your body and yeah, cultivating that 

Dalila Jusic-LaBerge: safety.

Yeah, that's that. We kind of mix different situation. Yeah, you know, you should go for it. It's like God, you know, you pray to God, you know, to win lottery and the God is saying, you fool, buy the ticket, you know? 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah, totally. [00:38:00] 

Dalila Jusic-LaBerge: So, and, and imagine Uh, as a woman, right? Like how much more, uh, how many more choices would you have if you went for it?

Yeah. Right? If you did it be more empowered instead of hoping that somebody will see you, and then the only time that somebody sees you is your, from your parking to your apartment or like, I, I mean, what's gonna happen, you know, somebody may even see you, but. lost, you know, connections. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. Yeah. It's like hiding, right.

It's like, it's, it's, and, and the same again in relationship is like, you have to put yourself in the rooms where you can meet that partner. And then you also have to put yourself in the rooms in your business, whatever that might look like. If, if you want to build the success in your business, and again, that can look obviously different for everybody, but it's like, you still have to put yourself out there.

Dalila Jusic-LaBerge: Absolutely right. Put yourself out there and [00:39:00] do the appropriate action based on the goal that you set and, you know, thing that you want to create. 

Kathryn Thompson: Totally. So question for you, because I know people are going to have this question. We talked a lot about creating safety and you are trained in somatic therapy.

What does that entail? And what does that look like if someone's like, okay, I'm so in my head and I'm anxious. I've got all these anxious thoughts. I'm, I'm swirling. I'm overwhelmed. And I just feel my nervous system is so, you know, on edge. 

Dalila Jusic-LaBerge: Well, yeah, yeah. So, I mean, there are different techniques that you can, literally, there is sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system.

You can do things to literally calm your nerves for a moment, but the best way to do it is, like, paired with thoughts, with how you see the situation. So you're going on a date, right, or going to the, uh, [00:40:00] like a call with a potential client. So it's like, you've got to remember, so you can first do some techniques of, you know, it depends where your nervous system is.

Some, some of us might be kind of agitated in fight flight, you know, responses, and some may be in the phone, uh, you know, doors of a go shut down when we are kind of like almost like no energy. So you need to kind of, you know, see where you're at. But regardless, you know, you can, uh, we call it bring yourself to the window of tolerance.

Yeah. So there is breathing, there's box breathing. If you need to slow down, uh, your nervous system, calm it down from these upper kind of places where it's too, too much in the upper level of window of tolerance. Yeah. Then, uh, your exhale should be longer. So you can count for four and hold, let's say, your breath for two, and then, uh, [00:41:00] count, exhale and that will, you know, that will slow down.

That's good for sleep. If you struggle falling asleep, if you are kind of in a dorsal vagal shutdown, you can kind of get up, stretch, maybe jump on trampoline and get yourself kind of like energized. Maybe you need to, you know, that brings you from down, you know, to the middle of a window of tolerance.

Yeah. And then Remind yourself what situation you are, I don't know, something 

Kathryn Thompson: fell. 

Dalila Jusic-LaBerge: I'll stop this, there was like, it was just like a tree or something, I don't know, fell, the, the cone 

Kathryn Thompson: fell from something. I was like, I'm like, did something fall or was that part of what you were doing? Yeah, 

Dalila Jusic-LaBerge: we will, we can do this again.

Okay. Then remind [00:42:00] yourself, uh, in what situation you are in, you know, you are not, uh, you're not doing surgery. You are not in war. You are meeting another person and just getting to know. So it goes back to that kind of mindfulness being present. Let me see what what she's about You know, he or whatever the situation is like, let me get to know them So when you're dating you can tell yourself, hey, I'm not here to make them like me I'm here to get to know them and see if I and I know a lot of you want a next day with them.

If they meet my, you know, and then let's get to know them. Ask, you know, add some questions, you know, actually have a blog with questions to ask on the day, but add, add some questions, you know, like what do you want to know about them? Their families, simple things. And then when people talk about themselves, they will actually like you.

[00:43:00] They will like that kind of ease. And always you can remind yourself that on a date, you know, lean back, you know, sit down, relax, put your feet on the ground and, you know, breathe, you know, more like kind of calmly and relax your nervous system. You know, you may have some other kind of, you may rub your legs, you know, there are other things to do like this, you know, that's calms you down and brings you back.

You may have a little, uh, stone, you know, that you can keep in your hand and kind of remind yourself, like, I'm the queen of hearts, you know, I'm the one who is deciding who will get this beautiful gift from what I have. So, In business, if you're, let's say, on a call with a potential client, you know, so you remind them, I'm here to help this person.

I'm here to help [00:44:00] them in the best possible way, you know, and if you're the right fit, things will work out. And obviously, you work on your skill in general, 

Kathryn Thompson: but Yeah, I love that perspective, because it's one thing I used to often say when I was in corporate and helping coach corporately. People would often, I often like apply for jobs, and I said, it's not about you going to the job interview to prove to them or make them like you.

It's also about you choosing whether or not you want to work with them. right? It's a two way street. And I'd often say that about sales calls, right? It's like when you get on a sales call or a discovery call or clarity call with somebody in your business, this isn't about you trying to prove. It really is about you being present.

And I think that's the biggest thing with marketing. When we're constantly in that sort of overthinking perspective, like, what do I need to say to get someone to like me, like the post, engage, whatever it is we want, or get them to even sign up [00:45:00] or work with me, we're in that, like, getting again. We're trying to get them to like me and it Ends up being sort of engineered or manufactured and we're not in the present moment of actually listening to really try to understand, but I think we overlook whether that might be the hyper vigilant, but we we have our blinders on where we can actually see.

Potentially where that client might be misaligned for various reasons, right? Or not quite ready yet for what it is you're going to coach them on. Um, and so they're giving them like a redirect until they're kind of ready for your coaching and. So I just think that sets, like, when I think about lean back, that's what I, that's what I always reference when I tell people, you gotta kind of lean back in your sales process.

And not from a place of, I don't care, but from a place of I'm just gonna show up and I'm going to share what I have to share, and then I'm, and then I'm also [00:46:00] gonna trust that. what I share will impact the people it needs to impact, and it'll call in the people into my world that are meant to be in my world.

And it also might not, it might call in people that are misaligned, but I get to choose whether or not I redirect them. 

Dalila Jusic-LaBerge: Absolutely, it's that ultimate trust and believe in yourself that you're good enough already as you are. There is nothing that you need to perform or do or be. You're already good, you already went to school, you already completed programs, what you needed, you already, you know, did this numerous times, so you're an expert in what you are providing, and you're there just to kind of be, and that's the biggest missing experience.

Yeah, for the world, somebody to just be there with them in a moment. And if you can manage that, a lot of these experiences would be so much better for like, [00:47:00] you, you would be more successful in dating, uh, you know, sales calls and everything else, just being there with a person and kind of seeing what they need.

You know, it's kind of like being a tune to baby. I kind of compare it like, Oh, I have a new baby. So I read all the books and I'm doing everything, you know, that I need to do. Maybe he doesn't care.

You two know exactly. that you can read her and you are going to be, like, there for her, and you are here to figure her out, and then you gradually learn how to figure her out. Is this cry for, I'm wet, or I'm like, I need to be fed, or I need to be seen, I need to be held. You know, and if you are anxious, the baby, no matter what you do, you can hold her.

They feel your nervous system. It's extension of you. And in the same [00:48:00] way, this just transfers to all other relationships, whether, you know, you are with clients, whether you are with boyfriends. So when you're over thinking and wondering, will I be good enough? You know, just like a young mother, will I be good enough?

It's just natural. That's how we are raised. I don't want people to beat themselves up for it. Yeah. But the baby is going to cry. And you, you see, sometimes that happens. Like you give the baby to another person that just stops crying because yeah. Yeah. And that, you know, you kind of need to know, okay, I'm aggravated, I, right now I'm not good, you know, you need to kind of, okay, I'm gonna talk to you later, you know, you need to know that about yourself or figure out, okay, what do I need to, to bring myself to that window of tolerance, we say, when your nervous system is not all the way up or all the way down, but kind of, you know, you know, 

Kathryn Thompson: normal.

Yeah, such a [00:49:00] beautiful analogy with the baby because I, and, and also the ripple of like, like you said, that goes out to all relationships. This doesn't just like, it's not just about a love partnership or a, or business. It's about even having a relationship with your children beyond the baby years with your friends, right?

Again, when we, when we come, when we are in that sort of calm and grounded place. Again, with that reflection, right? So if you go into any relationship in this like agitated, anxious place, that you're likely going to get that response. Or if somebody's sitting with you that's calm, it'll likely calm you without even realizing that Maybe that like, wait a minute, all of a sudden I feel calm in your presence.

There's this calming effect that I get when I'm in your world. 

Dalila Jusic-LaBerge: That's just interesting when you say all of this and then kind of remembering my life. Yeah. That person for me is grandma. Uh, the place where I can feel like I'm [00:50:00] loved and I'm enough. I don't need to get any grades. I don't need to perform anything.

It's just. And you can't even explain this, because it's like, I just feel accepted and loved and enough. In contrast to my parents, you know, they're anxious to make me into the good person, to get all good grades, so you don't feel enough. You know, when I do dishes at home, uh, I always break something because I'm anxious, you know, in that anxious place.

And I said to my dad after two weeks being with my grandma, I didn't break any dishes at grandma, you know, he's laughing because he knows. Yeah. So this is what I'm, you know, that's why grandparents are, they don't have that burden to bring you to the right path. They already know you're doing good and these parents of yours are just too neurotic.

Everything will work out. Everything will be okay. 

Kathryn Thompson: It's living on the, [00:51:00] like, I always call it living on eggshells. I can always feel it when I'm in the presence where I feel like I'm, I'm, oh, I'm, I'm teetering on eggshells, like, and it's anxious, right? And that's 

Dalila Jusic-LaBerge: the point. You're not going to heal and then Look for relationship, but you need to have that awareness.

Like, I remember like I had a car accident and I'm like immediately and I'm not even at fault, you know, and I'm expecting my husband to be like my father. You know what, even if it's not my fault, there will be some kind of wrath, right? Yeah. Are you okay? I'm like, wow. Somebody, like, the most normal, right?

It's like, are you okay? Is everything okay? Are you, how, what, it's about me and they care about me. It's not this, oh, what have you done, and blah, blah, blah, how wrong you are, you know? 

Kathryn Thompson: Totally. Yeah, it's so, it's so interesting. And again, right, it ripples [00:52:00] out into all of the types of relationships and, and the way in which we show up and it comes back to that relationship with self, right?

That self compassion, that self love, that self acceptance. And when we can cultivate that within ourselves. Whether you're in business looking for a love partner, whatever it is, and you create that like security within yourself, that will start to reflect out to the people that are showing up in your world to you and how they respond to you because there is this Yeah, this acceptance.

But then you become also more compassionate, more loving, more accepting of others in your, in your world as well, because you can start to see what you probably have within you or had within you or whatever. You start to see that within other people. And I think I come back to business and like sales calls and talking with people, you had said, just go and have a conversation and try to get to know somebody.

And I think in marketing, when I think about, What I'm here to do and what I [00:53:00] really want to help people do is obviously show up and be authentic. And part of that is going to be cultivating safety within you and your business. But, but the other piece of it is, is like just to have genuine conversations with people to connect with them, to not try to manufacture or engineer some type of outcome, just go and listen.

And listening to me is the best way that you can connect with people. And also then You know, write copy or communicate or what not with them because you really understand them. And if we don't understand the people we're trying to connect and what not with. It's going to be hard to create that connection.

Exactly. 

Dalila Jusic-LaBerge: Exactly. And you can do it only from that, you know, uh, relaxed place. You know, not, not, and even if you're, if you can't help but be anxious, you can say, Oh, I just feel a little anxious. You know, if you, if you just say that, that that's going to be wonderful, that connecting piece, because the. [00:54:00] Quite likely that you're maybe reading other person's feeling and you're kind of empath that you may feel that So if you just are authentic like that, you're in touch with yourself You're going to create connection, but if you're just kind of in that bravado, like kind of over functioning, trying to control, not that you're trying, but it's just like a survival mode, right?

I got to do this well, I got to say the right thing, I got to not say that, what should I say, you know? That's gonna be difficult to connect, and the person, like I've seen so many women, they attract men, you know, they're wonderful women, but then men just don't even know, they kind of feel freaked out from that energy.

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah, because there is a vulnerability there, right? If you think about it, if you're going on a date with somebody for the first time, they probably feel nervous, too. We're standing on Especially if they like you. Yeah, if you're standing on stage doing a [00:55:00] presentation, selling from stage, whatever it is, and you get on stage and there's a room full of 300 people, I mean, you're probably going to pick up the energy that, that energy in the room and there, there, there could be people sitting in this audience.

I know I, when I'm sitting in the audience, I'm always nervous for the person on stage, like, you know, it's, I know how nerve wracking it can be to stand in front of 300 people and deliver a presentation. And the fear of like, what if I don't say the right thing, or what if I stumble on my words, or what if I forget what I'm saying, or like all the things that come up, what if I look weird, what if people don't get it, and I'm looking in the audience and everyone looks confused, like, all of those things that can happen when, yeah, you're presenting or whatnot, and so it's like, um, just to be able to say and reflect and show how you're human, is like such a deep form of connection on every level.

Like, I'm nervous. I'm feeling a little anxious. I hope I don't stumble on my words today. 

Dalila Jusic-LaBerge: Yeah. And finding [00:56:00] that, uh, you know, safety in your body, you can actually kind of. be in tune with that body and say, oh, you're feeling a little nervous, like what's going on? And that's, that's kind of almost being, being for, like, there for your younger parts.

Those are, your body hosts those younger parts, and then they give you that feeling, right? And, uh, figuratively speaking. And then you can kind of just recognize and remind that, you know, right now we need to give a speech and everything will be okay. You feel like tigers are chasing you, but there's no tigers and even if we make mistakes, people will actually like us even more because people like others that make mistakes that are not perfect.

Yeah, and it can chill out and you can go and give your speech. Yeah, 

Kathryn Thompson: I remember doing a presentation, um, A couple of years ago, and I was doing a [00:57:00] zoom call with a group of people and somebody had asked me to be into the, in their container to give this presentation. And when I showed up, I had asked a question about where they kind of were in their business.

And I was under the impression they were kind of further along in their business. So I had tailored the presentation to speak to someone who was further along in business. And when everybody responded that, like, they're just getting started, they haven't even started an Insta account, all this stuff, I started to panic.

Cause I was like, Oh man, like what I'm about to teach you is going to be what maybe you should be learning like two, three, five years into business. And so I started to talk and I could see in the Zoom room, I could see people's kind of faces looking and whatnot. And I was asking questions that, that somebody in three, five years of business would be able to answer, but somebody in like year zero wouldn't have an answer for.

And so I started to kind of panic, right? And then I. But I just said, you know what, I'm going to just lean into my intuition here. I'm just going to actually do an open floor Q& [00:58:00] A. You're in your first zero years of business. And so I think it's better that you just come to me with your questions and I'll answer based on the questions you have so that you can walk away with something that is beneficial to you.

And I'm sitting there at the time and I'm like thinking to myself, oh, the lady that asked me is going to be like, why did I ask her? Like, she stumbled on her words. She wasn't, you know, speaking very well. I can't believe I asked her to come talk to my people. And it's nowhere to A lot that it was the best session because they got exactly what they needed at that moment.

And then after the session, she was like recommending me to everybody. And so it's funny, the stories we love to tell herself, like, yeah, I feel like I'm being chased by a tiger. Or I also feel like I'm completely failing this person that has entrusted me to come speak to their group. And I've messed up.

And in reality, she was like, thank you for not doing the presentation because they probably, it probably wouldn't have served them, and it would have been an hour, hour and a half that they didn't necessarily get the [00:59:00] benefit, yet it would be something that they would utilize years down 

Dalila Jusic-LaBerge: the road. And that is such a great example of being present.

You're like, okay, this is a situation, and that's that competency, you know. So am I gonna give them story about gazillionaire, you know, how to make money when they're like trying to make their first 10k. Yeah, okay, thank you. Like, I'm going to take a nap during your presentation, right? But like, you're here for me.

Okay, let's see what you have. So that's a great example of, you know, kind of conquering that. Not, Not the word conquering is maybe the best word, but kind of like, uh, going beyond that. Oh, I wasn't prepared, but you're competent. You, you are an expert in it and it works the 

Kathryn Thompson: best. Yeah. And the stories that we can tell ourselves in the moment, right?

The stories of, well, I'm delivering this and I know they're getting value [01:00:00] is like, it wasn't what I had maybe said I was going to deliver in terms of a presentation, but I know, yeah, as I said, like her after, she was like, thank you so much. You're a rock star. And meanwhile, I'm like stumbling on my words at first.

And yeah. And then, and again, we're all human and they're sitting there. You know, I know as new business owners probably feeling anxious and nervous too, because they're like, I'm asking them all these questions that they don't have the answers to. 

Dalila Jusic-LaBerge: And we are thinking, who knows, maybe they have no idea that you, you know, it's just.

what comes to your mind? Like, you are anxious for yourself and then you are anxious for them to be anxious for you. I mean, look at that. Like, many layers. That's, that's that over functioning. That's that high achieving. I don't want to put you on the spot, but this is so much women. Like, what does dad think that I think, so I need to think, say this [01:01:00] so that dad doesn't think that I'm, you know, need more from him, like, so I need to say something completely like that.

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. Yeah. And I lived in the over functioning for, yeah, for years, right? I was, that was my, go to pattern, for sure, was to over function. Like, think about myself, but then also think about what everybody else was thinking, and how they were responding, and how they were reacting, and being in a room, and being nervous for the presenter.

Then I'm like, why am I, you know, so it's like that, you know, over functioning and hoping they do a good job, and yeah, so it was that. It's totally, it's totally that, um, that hyper, yeah, over functioning, for sure. But 

Dalila Jusic-LaBerge: guess what everybody loves the most in this world? What's the ultimate Joy, when you find that, is, uh, kind of giving to other people, making other people happy, like, and I'm talking from this from the perspective, [01:02:00] we are trying to make others happy, but they, you are denying that, them that opportunity to make you happy by not being able to ask for your need, what you need, expressing your boundaries.

So. When women can kind of be in that feeling and understand their feelings, you know, and then express that, that's what feeds this magnetic attraction. Because you are providing this missing piece for somebody to be there for you. Men love to be there for you. Similarly, whatever, you know, we like to make others happy.

And then when you allow us to serve you, so it has to be kind of back and forth, but Many of us over achieving, high functioning, high, uh, like, over functioning, what I mean to say, people are kind of in that spinning, like, uh, prefrontal cortex, you [01:03:00] know, because that's our defense. What do I need to say to do so that they don't feel you know, this.

Yeah. And it's like crazy. 

Kathryn Thompson: It is. It is. And it is also, it's, it's so, I know for me, like when I finally got that and, and also healed that there's just this deep contentment that I don't think I've felt in a very, very long time in my life, but also really knowing that how somebody responds or reacts to me is not my responsibility to try and manufacture or engineer.

And I think. That was probably my biggest fear coming into the online space was, Oh no, what if I say something that offends somebody? What if I say something that pisses them off? What if I say something that gets me cancelled? That's the, what if I say something and people misunderstand me? And so, I didn't at all reflect who I was, but I also never really leaned into like my expertise, and honour [01:04:00] my voice, and what I was here to say, and how I'm here to do things differently.

Because I was like, I don't want to do it differently. Cause what if, cause, cause then I'm going to stand out. 

Dalila Jusic-LaBerge: Yeah. And that's, yeah, that, that's a great kind of reflection. And it goes kind of back to that. You are needed in this world just the way you are. And you deny people that opportunity to kind of, you know, join with you in this.

You. It's the world, should I say. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. Yeah. And it's so true. And I think that's a beautiful, poignant piece to sort of end on for our, for our audience, because I think you are, when we aren't our full selves, when we aren't living to our, you know, greatest self expression, when we aren't feeling safe in our body to be ourselves, we are denying the opportunity for that magnetic connection.

whether it's with clients, whether it's with a love partner, whether it's with our family members, right, is like [01:05:00] how to really create, create that deep connection. And that really does start with us. 

Dalila Jusic-LaBerge: Exactly. That's, and that's the skill, you know, like people talk, Oh, I need to better myself, but that's the skill allowing.

Yeah, to be, to kind of just be present and listen to people 

Kathryn Thompson: and yeah, so beautiful. What's been such a pleasure having you on. I know that our audience is going to love this episode. Where can they find you if they want to connect with 

Dalila Jusic-LaBerge: you? Uh, well, I'm on Instagram and YouTube and I have a website, uh, at secure love creator.

That's my Instagram and it's also SecureLoveCreator, also on Facebook and, uh, YouTube, that's my name of the channel, and my website is BeHereAndNow. 

Kathryn Thompson: com. Amazing. Amazing. And we'll drop all of those links in the show notes so that you can easily [01:06:00] access them, but definitely reach out because if you're, if you're feeling or resonate with any of this, because, um, like I said, this has been such a powerful and poignant conversation today.

And I think it, uh, I know my audience is just going to love it. So. Thank 

Dalila Jusic-LaBerge: you. Thank you. It was lovely chatting with you. 

Kathryn Thompson: I absolutely loved that episode. We had such a blast. I'm sure that you could hear as we were chatting, uh, laughing and all of that, and really sharing both of our stories in a lot of ways, because Honestly, this is something that I see so prevalently and something obviously as I shared is that I struggled with creating that safety within myself for that to be reflected in my business and I've done a lot of the work that Delia really helps people with when it comes to relationships specifically, but really at the root of what she does and the core of what her work is, is to really create that inner security within yourself so that you can attract what it is that you want in a relationship [01:07:00] into your life.

Now, again, as we mentioned, the same thing is true for business and what we're attracting into our world. So if you're frustrated with the fact that you're attracting misaligned clients or you're frustrated because people aren't buying, I would invite you to really sort of start to kind of reflect and unpack on a lot of the things we talked about here today, because it will likely.

Go back to some type of trauma and also that dysregulation within the nervous system, that survival, living in the survival, flight or fight, that sort of thing that we talked about. And that really is impacting a lot of the way in which we show up in business. Or don't show up, right? We talked about that avoidant, like avoiding the responsibility, avoiding the success.

And so I absolutely cannot wait to hear what y'all have thought about this episode. And if you want to reach out to Delia, you absolutely can. We are linking up all of our links in the show notes. So definitely reach out to her on Instagram, [01:08:00] you can go to her website, you can reach out in that capacity.

Like I said, her work goes well beyond just relationship coaching, uh, as we talked about and as you definitely heard today on the episode. And again, please don't forget to subscribe to the show so you don't miss when an episode drops next week. Cheers. 

Dalila Jusic-LaBerge: Thanks for listening. We'll see you right back here next time.

You can also find us on social media at Creatively Owned and online at creativelyowned. com. Until next time, keep showing up as your authentic self.